Episode 148 | Water Fasting After Cancer Reset Her Body (Early Menopause Reversed)

[00:00:00] Dr. Katie Deming: Cancer treatments pushed Tara into chemical menopause. Then three months after a five-day water fast, her body did something she didn't expect.

[00:00:10] Dr. Katie Deming: Welcome to Born to Heal, the podcast helping people with cancer go beyond Western medicine to heal naturally through the ancient power of prolonged water fasting, so you can ditch the toxic protocols, take control of your health, and let your body do what it's designed to do: heal. I'm your host, Dr.

[00:00:30] Dr. Katie Deming: Katie Deming.

[00:00:30] Dr. Katie Deming: Today I'm joined by Tara Elmore, who was diagnosed with breast cancer at age 37 and later co-founded Complex Creatures, a company born out of everything she couldn't find after her own treatment ended. What shifted for her wasn't a new protocol, it was learning to trust her own body again.

[00:00:50] Dr. Katie Deming: In this episode, you'll discover why the last day of treatment, the day you're supposed to feel free, can feel more like standing at the edge [00:01:00] of a cliff, and what almost no one prepares you for.

[00:01:03] Dr. Katie Deming: You'll also learn the small, gentle practice most women are never taught, the one that turns a self-exam into something closer to connection. And finally, you'll hear what happened after Tara's five-day water fast when her body brought back something she thought she had lost. This one's really about the space no one talks about, the long stretch after medicine stops and the rest of your life begins.

[00:01:29] Dr. Katie Deming: Let's dive in.

[00:01:30] Dr. Katie Deming: Tara Elmore, thank you so much for joining me on the show. I'm excited to talk to you. Welcome

[00:01:36] Tara Elmore: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk with you too

[00:01:40] Dr. Katie Deming: So, you know, Tara, you said that cancer treatment comes with a roadmap, like the doctors, the protocols, a clear path, but the day it ends, you're handed nothing. You're just on your own. Can you take me to that moment that that ga- gap became real for you, and what that was like? And, and also I'm curious, you know, what did you see, like, or, or experience from your perspective, and then what did you notice, like this is a bigger problem, at hand?

[00:02:13] Tara Elmore: absolutely. So I would say it was almost immediate. Like, I can remember leaving Sloan Kettering on the day of my last treatment, the sky was bright blue, and feeling this sense of like, “Oh my gosh, I'm done. I… That's amazing.” And then honestly, within hours, I think, you know, they said, “We'll see you in a year for mammogram or your screening.”

[00:02:37] Tara Elmore: And I was just like, “Okay, and what am I supposed to do between now and then?” You know? Because you're– if you choose conventional treatment, you know, there's a very clear roadmap. It's show up for your treatment. Here's what's to, what to do in between, and it's really, really clear. And it also, your family, your friends, your community hopefully rally around you.

[00:03:04] Tara Elmore: Everybody kind of knows what to do, right? Like gathers, and we're gonna get the meal train going, and we're gonna help you with your kids if you need it. And, you know, at the time, I, I wasn't… Well, I had started working about halfway through treatment, but I wasn't working a ton, and I was working for myself, so that was okay.

[00:03:21] Tara Elmore: But I think It just became clear so quickly that I didn't know what to do. I was not going back to the way I was living before. That was just not an option. I knew that almost immediately. and I think it just got worse and worse. It actually got harder because I think, and now that the more and more people I've spoken to, I think so many of us experience this, that, you know, people stop checking in as much.

[00:03:49] Tara Elmore: They kind of like, “You're okay, right? You're good?” Like, people kind of want to hear that you're good, and so your hair starts growing back in, and you're showing up in the world, and you're maybe doing more things and, and people just think you're okay, like you're good, you're cancer-free. And actually, the more people I've spoken to, I just think after treatment can be so much harder than treatment for people because there's no roadmap.

[00:04:16] Tara Elmore: And so I personally just started researching. I, I, I had been doing a ton of research during my treatment because I knew I was not going to go back to living the way I was living before. So I was gathering all of this info and sort of waiting that I implement it, certain things, um, because, you know, the Western doctors are very specific about what they want you to do and don't want you to do while you're going through treatment.

[00:04:42] Tara Elmore: and then just from a physical point of view, like I d- I wasn't ready to start a lot of the, practices and lifestyle changes that I knew I wanted to make, so I was sort of like plotting, like when am I going to turn the switch and start making these bigger ones? It felt like a full-time job to just research and find everything.

[00:05:02] Tara Elmore: And this is now almost 10 years ago, and so I do think now there's a lot more resources and podcasts and, and books and courses and things that are available to people, which is amazing. But I think it was– The landscape was pretty different, I would say, nine and a half years ago, when I had my diagnosis.

[00:05:21] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah. Well, and it– what's interesting is even though the landscape, maybe the information now, there's more information, that gap that you described is exactly… So when I practiced, Western medicine, I was a radiation oncologist, and in breast cancer, radiation is oftentimes the last kinda active treatment before someone goes to hormonal therapy or, you know, is done with therapy.

[00:05:47] Dr. Katie Deming: And I remember saying to my patients that, you know, a lot of people think that that last day of treatment, they're gonna ring the bell, they're gonna be, like, so happy. They see images on social media of people, like, ringing the bell and so happy and celebrating, and I'm like, “I just wanna tell you That that's not my experience, that most people maybe have that, like there's that sense of accomplishment, but then you feel like you're standing on the edge of a cliff.

[00:06:16] Dr. Katie Deming: And actually, more common experience for people to feel is anxiety and aloneness and like, “What the heck?” Like, and you said something in there that, “I knew I wasn't going back to the life before.” And this– the thing is, is that you can't go back to the life before because you're a different after going through all of this.

[00:06:37] Dr. Katie Deming: And so what I would always tell my patients is that if you feel anxious, if you feel lonely, if you feel scared, if you feel depressed, this is all very, very normal as you're making this transition. ‘ Cause you think about it, like especially with radiation, they were with me, like my staff every day and then seeing me every week.

[00:07:00] Dr. Katie Deming: And there's some sense of safety and direction when you have that kind of contact, and then to go to have nothing and be like… And then also, like you said something else beautiful in there is that we're very specific. In Western medicine, doctors are very specific about this is what you need to do while you're having this treatment, blah, blah, blah.

[00:07:21] Dr. Katie Deming: And maybe for like the six weeks afterwards, right? They'll say, “Okay, these are the things to expect.” But then afterwards, most doctors are like, “It really doesn't matter what you do. It doesn't matter what you eat. It doesn't ma-” You know, and it's like this huge gap. And, and granted, there are doctors out there for sure that are educating their clients or patients on lifestyle choices, but a lot of them are not.

[00:07:43] Dr. Katie Deming: And so there's this real sense of like, wow, I've really been told what to do at every step, and all of a sudden, not only is all of that gone and the doctors are stepping back from me, but I really don't know what to do, right? And so I, I think that this gap is 100% real because I saw it every day, and I would prepare my patients for it because I knew it was coming, and I knew they ex- th-this is the other piece that I think is hard, is you expect to feel one way, like excited, relieved, and there may be some of that, but it's so mixed with all this other, you know, anxiety, kind of worry about what's next.

[00:08:25] Dr. Katie Deming: So this is a really big deal

[00:08:28] Tara Elmore: e-everything you just said is so real, and I couldn't agree more. I

[00:08:32] Tara Elmore: I think that the gap was, was so intense, and I wish that my radiation oncologist had prepared me for any of that. I think, my care team didn't address any of that, really.

[00:08:45] Tara Elmore: And I think what you said of like falling off a cliff, that's what it feels like. It's, that is so real. Um, and I think the idea that you're supposed to feel elated when you ring the bell, and like so much of it feels a little bit performative, and it kind of, to me, falls in that category of like the warrior and all.

[00:09:05] Tara Elmore: Like that just never resonated with me. In fact, I, I find it,very unhelpful actually. Um, I think that this idea that we're fighting this thing when it's actually like within us and w- like how do you actually figure out how to find peace inside? Not like that you want to be with a cancer, but like this idea that you're having this battle, I just, that analogy just never did it for me.

[00:09:31] Tara Elmore: Um, and so I think putting those pieces together, I spent all this time putting these pieces together and realizing, you know, in being told what to do, where to show up, what to eat. Well, they don't– They say it doesn't matter what you eat, um, but which, you know, supplements not to take. Um, be careful of too many berries because they have, you know, um, like they're, th- they don't want them to interact with something or a grapefruit, these things, so.

[00:10:02] Tara Elmore: But I think that what I realized is I was just giving away my agency, and that this intuitive knowing that once we're able to tap into is so powerful, and I think if we can get the support and the guidance and the training around what might be for us on a day-to-day basis, I think that's one of the most powerful things that we can do just to shift our experience after a diagnosis or treatment or really any, any life, you know, health crisis, right?

[00:10:37] Tara Elmore: It doesn't have to just be cancer.

[00:10:39] Dr. Katie Deming: so Complex Creatures was really born in that gap, right? So w- what did you go looking for that didn't exist yet, and what did you build to fill that gap?

[00:10:52] Tara Elmore: Yeah. So, I'll go back a little bit before Complex Creatures. I actually, I sought out, um, a really broad care team to help detox me and recenter me after treatment. I found an acupuncturist I love that I saw every week. I started seed cycling. learned about Dr. Zach Bush, and I traveled to Virginia from New Jersey to go to his clinic and get a protocol from his team to help me detox and really optimize my health.

[00:11:25] Tara Elmore: I found Dr. Nasha Winters and all of the work she was doing and read her book. and ultimately what I found was that to fill the gap, I, I personally did some coaching with some different people, and I found that, like, I pretty much knew what to do. It was the doing it that was the hard part, right?

[00:11:45] Tara Elmore: And I think that's where our humanness is so, That's the thread, right? Most of us do kinda know what we need to do, but the, in the retraining and the learning of how to actually change your life, that's where the sustained change and health and vitality and connectedness with ourselves so that we can be connected with our people and the world, that's where the lasting change is.

[00:12:10] Dr. Katie Deming: And so that was the thing that really motivated me to make that, that change. I wanna stop you there for one second because one thing that you just described in there is one tangible action step that peo- people can take is looking at, okay, how do I just start to detox my body from what I went through, right? ‘Cause I think one of the things that at least, you know, my experience of watching people go through this is that when you're standing on that edge of the cliff, it's like, it seems like this giant abyss.

[00:12:41] Dr. Katie Deming: Like, there is so much that I could be doing, but it's not even clear what I should be doing. But having one thing that people can step towards, and actually this is one of the things that in my current practice with fasting, is that we help people when they finish treatment to detox, and then fasting is also this powerful reflection, so it gives people time to not only detox their body from the, whatever systemic treatments that they had or anesthesia related to surgery, radiation, w- hormonal therapy, whatever it is, to detox, but then also to have that contemplative space to reflect on what you've just went through, because it changes you fundamentally, and it takes time to integrate who you're becoming in that next phase.

[00:13:33] Dr. Katie Deming: So I love that you, you mentioned that about detox and then finding people that you trust. So finding those voices, like, you know, Z- for you, Zach Bush and Nasha Winters and, you know, coaching. It's like you need support just like you needed, you know, treatment from, or you needed professionals in your treatment, your doctors, the nurses, all of that.

[00:13:56] Dr. Katie Deming: In this next phase, there's gonna be a team that will be really important to support you through as you're making that transition. And you don't need to know the whole picture. You don't have to have the whole plan for the whole thing. You could just start with one.

[00:14:11] Tara Elmore: Yes. I love that you said that. That was, that was my North Star because I, again, I didn't know the path. I didn't know how I would get there, but I had this voice in my head all through treatment, like, “I need space.” I knew I needed space, and I knew I just had to t- do the next right thing, and that was it.

[00:14:29] Tara Elmore: And so I just learned to, like, use that muscle, trust it over and over again, and just follow it. And I, I did. And, and when I start– learned of Zach Bush and then started really, like, just consuming everything he was putting out into the world, and he's just such a beautiful person, if anyone's not familiar with him, like you should be.

[00:14:48] Tara Elmore: but you know, he talked about the power of fasting for everyone. And so I worked my way toward a five-day water fast, but it took me about a year from when I finished my very last Herceptin, until I got to that, that point. and then, and I, like you, I think you will appreciate this. A lot of people think I'm crazy when I say this, but almost three months to the day after I finished my five-day water fast, my, I got my cycle back after being in chemical menopause from treatment, and ended up having my third child, like almost right away after that.

[00:15:28] Tara Elmore: So that's sort of like another, another whole fasting story. But

[00:15:33] Dr. Katie Deming: so interesting because that is something that we see. And, and I– you know, what's interesting for me is I started doing it because I saw tumors go away when in, in some of the very first cases that I did, and I was like, why have I never heard of this?” But then now it's like so much more that I've seen, but one of the things that I have seen is actually we had someone with breast cancer who had fasted, and then she became pregnant afterwards, after the fast.

[00:16:01] Dr. Katie Deming: So that's interesting, yeah, I– that you, you share that story is that I do know that fasting is such a powerful reset for your hormones, and especially I, I love that story of being put through chemical menopause with the, you know, therapies that you went through, and then fasting was the way that brought that back, brought your cycle back, and then ultimately a pregnancy.

[00:16:25] Dr. Katie Deming: It's beautiful. I mean, this is like something that so many women, you know, hope that's possible after a cancer diagnosis and just not sure

[00:16:34] Tara Elmore: I was not trying. It was like he, you know, we had sort of mourned the loss of the choice, even though my other kids were two and four when I was diagnosed, and we were kind of like, “Okay.” But I didn't wanna freeze my eggs. I was like, “I'm gonna be 40 when I finish treatment. I'm good.”

[00:16:50] Tara Elmore: But he's amazing. He's just, he's six. so it's like, but it's just really powerful, and I think just having that, that reset so much shifted. And so, and then just on the fasting, you know, to talk about fasting for a minute, and then I was pregnant, so I couldn't fast.

[00:17:07] Tara Elmore: I didn't feel like, I don't think you

[00:17:08] Dr. Katie Deming: no, you're not

[00:17:09] Tara Elmore: seem like, that did not seem like a good idea. but I'll defer to you as the expert. and that's, I think around then I discovered Dr. Vic-Victor Longo and was doing one after I had him. I after I gave birth, I did ProLon, a series of ProLon because I just, I was, was nursing, from one breast and did…

[00:17:30] Tara Elmore: Which I, nobody talked about. Nobody w- could tell me what to expect or what it would be like or anything like that. And I think even just sharing that, that it is possible, I had no idea if it would be possible or if he would be healthy or, you know, how it would be for me. So I just, I think it's so interesting and the, the power of, of the body to just reset and heal itself after, you know, something so traumatic to the body.

[00:18:01] Dr. Katie Deming: And so you're talking about doing ProLon fasting, and I just wanna explain what that is to people. So this, Longo, does fasting mimicking diet, and one of the options within that is using ProLon, which is a packaged, kind of meals, but it's a, it's, it's a type of fast. But you were starting to talk about that, how you had used that after you had the pregnancy and then, had done that?

[00:18:24] Tara Elmore: Yeah. So I, I started to have some anxiety around the fact that I wasn't able to fast. I think I was so dialed in to my post-cancer regimen, and then I got pregnant and that thr- I was of course like, “Okay, universe, thank you.” And how do I stay sane as a cancer survivor, right? Like, uh, in this space of making sure I'm optimizing my terrain and I'm staying healthy, and I was choosing to not, be on the aromatase inhibitor and, um, you know, which is controversial for some people, but that's ultimately what I just felt like was right for me.

[00:19:05] Tara Elmore: And, but in combination with making sure I was making these lifestyle changes and monitoring my blood work and doing all these other, you know, the, the things that were in my control. And since I couldn't do fasts, you know, real like a water fast, while I was pregnant or while, while I was nursing and postpartum, I chose to do that, which is, you know, there is some nutrients, uh, not while I was pregnant, just disclaimer, postpartum, postpartum after I felt, you know, that I was recovered post the fourth trimester, all of that, you know, safely to do that.

[00:19:44] Tara Elmore: And it, and it did give me some peace of mind and I, and it helped me achieve that, you know, the fasting mimicking helped me achieve that state, I believe, for a period of time.

[00:19:56] Dr. Katie Deming: Beautiful. So circling back then to complex creatures, tell us, tell us about that and what the gap that that fills

[00:20:04] Tara Elmore: Yes. So Complex Creatures was born, between me and my older sister who, automatically just became high risk once I got diagnosed. and she was put onto this fast track of screening, which she didn't even know was gonna be her path. and ultimately was experiencing a lot of discomfort and pain through her own perimenopause journey.

[00:20:31] Tara Elmore: And she started making, uh, a breast oil to alleviate some of that pain and really going deep into the research of what she could do to support and hopefully not get breast cancer, right? And so she was on that path, and then I was on my recovery path. And like you said, radiation is often the last, um, part of treatment, and that was the case for me.

[00:20:57] Tara Elmore: And so by then I was a good nine months into, you know, my, my journey, and I think I had a very acute awareness that what they were offering me did not feel aligned. It didn't feel like putting, you know, Aquaphor was maybe the best thing. And I kind of just had this like, why is there nothing better than a barrier?

[00:21:21] Tara Elmore: Why is there not something that's healing the skin, that's n- like nourishing, offering hydration or protection from the burns or healing? And, [00:21:30] and so I ended up actually finding a local practitioner who was this older, amazing older nurse practitioner who was– did breast massage, which I think was illegal in New Jersey.

[00:21:41] Tara Elmore: And, she was incredible, and she had made some homemade formula that I used throughout my own radiation. And all the doctors, they a- “Can we take a photo? Can we show this? Can we share?” And just the idea that there was this very simple, I think it had, you know, three ingredients or something that was…

[00:21:59] Tara Elmore: And my, my skin is pretty fair, that it was really protecting my skin and nourishing it. I never had burns or anything that was, you know, too traumatic happening on the outside of my skin, at

[00:22:13] Dr. Katie Deming: what were the ingredients in this,

[00:22:15] Tara Elmore: Oh, gosh. I– You know what? I,

[00:22:17] Dr. Katie Deming: Well, and I'm just

[00:22:18] Tara Elmore: I could remember

[00:22:19] Dr. Katie Deming: I wanna be specific, especially if we're talking about radiation creams, is like the, during radiation, actually what the data supports is the use of calendula. So calendula is the active ingredient. So my guess is that whatever she was preparing had calendula in it.

[00:22:34] Dr. Katie Deming: But typically, for during radiation if someone were to use something, calendula is the, ingredients that has the most data around reducing redness, peeling related to radiation damage, and then usually aloe vera, and vitamin E. Those are the things that are gonna give you the moisture, it's gonna give you the soothing, and then it's gonna give you that, protection for during the radiation.

[00:22:56] Dr. Katie Deming: But I just wanna say that specifically, 'cause if people hear this and then they're like, “Okay, I wanna know what to use during radiation.” Um, so it's, it's important to have that aspect of it in there. Yeah.

[00:23:06] Tara Elmore: absolutely. And, and so I think, well, that– Anyway, that– Whatever she was making homemade was not widely available. It wasn't something I could purchase as a repeat, you know, for myself or gift to somebody else. And it got me thinking, why doesn't something like this exist that's, you know, readily available?

[00:23:26] Tara Elmore: Not on Etsy, not that there's anything wrong with whatever's on Etsy, but just seeing the white space for why doesn't– why aren't we supporting people when they need something like this? And so that's what we did. And so between that, those are our two sort of main products right now that we make. Um, we have a, the healing balm, which is really formulated for scars and for healing from radiation, including calendula, um, and vitamin E and some other botanicals that, you know, really were thoughtful about, like, is it, you know, gonna be, is it oozing?

[00:24:05] Tara Elmore: Is it… You know, we really thought through the different, the, the different, experiences that your s- uh, skin could be having. and as we formulate it, and everything's organic, and it's very gentle and, you know, people see really beautiful results when they use it. And then we have a breast oil that's really, more formulated for just everyday massage and connecting with yourself, getting to know what your nor- your normal is.

[00:24:34] Tara Elmore: and that every time you touch your breasts, also, it doesn't have to be a search and find mission. It can just be, like, a connection, a getting to know yourself and sort of, you know, removing some of that stigma that culturally, society, societally, and that we all have. Um, so yeah, that's what we make products to support, to support boobs, and that's, that's what we're passionate about.

[00:25:03] Dr. Katie Deming: I love it. And so tell me with the oil, like if someone's using… And it's interesting this, this is like, probably personal information, but recently I just went through, like had my last period, it's been like now several months ago, and started having hot flashes, whatever, and so I've been using, wild yam cream.

[00:25:22] Dr. Katie Deming: And one of the things is like you have to put it on like, you know, non-sun exposed areas just to, for better absorption. And it was funny because last night it was like the breast is one area that you could put it on, and I was like, oh, so I was just like putting it on. I was like, this is so interesting.

[00:25:36] Dr. Katie Deming: I've never put like cream specifically just on my breasts, and I was like, that's really… It's so interesting that I'm talking to you today, and that literally just happened last night where I was like, “I've never done this before.” So like, talk to us about that. Like, why is that important to touch your breasts to, you know, have a, an oil like this?

[00:25:56] Dr. Katie Deming: Like, what, what would be the benefits for people just generally?

[00:25:59] Tara Elmore: Yeah, sure. So first of all, we have to get you some breast oil, 'cause I just would want to hear what you

[00:26:04] Dr. Katie Deming: Yes, I

[00:26:05] Tara Elmore: I think most people just are like: Wait, what? You do breast care? It's, it's not something that we think about. We kind of think as, of breast health as is your screening clean or does your bra fit or, you know, do your boobs feel okay after you were nursing or, you know, something like that.

[00:26:27] Tara Elmore: It's related to these sort of life phases, and I think there's a couple of things. One, we have so many lymph– We have so much lymph in our neck, in our chest, in our armpits, and in our breasts, and the lymph, keeping the lymph moving is so important, right? And the breasts are designed to move naturally, but when we wear bras or sports bras, we're not moving them, right?

[00:26:52] Tara Elmore: And so we've sort of taken… If you think about, this is how I think about, like nature intended for them to move and for the lymph to move, and if we're moving through the world and they're moving around naturally, they kind of get that. But if they don't get that or they're restricted, and I get for a lot of people, it's they do wanna wear a bra.

[00:27:11] Tara Elmore: They feel better that way, and that's totally cool. You should just move them a little bit, right? So whether that's just through a simple massage or with or without an oil. Of course, I am a huge fan of our oil, but you can do it without anything, just your hands, and that's fine too. Um, so moving the lym- lymph is really important for overall health, 'cause it has no pump, right?

[00:27:34] Tara Elmore: The The blood has the heart, the lymph, we have to move it manually. It only moves when we exercise or move our bodies. And it doesn't take much just to say that. Like, it's a very gentle, like it's right below the skin and it's super gentle, touch or massage. It doesn't really take much at all.

[00:27:54] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah

[00:27:55] Tara Elmore: then the other thing that I think is super important is just getting to know your breasts, because screening is not recommended until later, and younger breast cancer is on the rise exponentially every year.

[00:28:10] Tara Elmore: I was 37 when I was diagnosed. I hadn't yet had a mammogram. My husband actually felt the tumor, because he knew my boobs better than I did, and that's sort of like sad, right? Like I just, I wasn't somebody who was really doing a regular self-check. so I think that's so important. Like if we can remind ourselves that we can be connected to our bodies and that we do have so much more agency than we are told sometimes than we do, right?

[00:28:42] Tara Elmore: And, and led to believe by a lot of the different systems and, and that are just in place that we don't even think about, right? But, so just knowing your normal, I think that's so important.

[00:28:53] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah. And I would say, for that, this is an important point because what's interesting is, you know, in the screening and everything that they've talked about is like, oh, self-breast exam is, is not, There's no evidence for that. But the, th- there's nothing that beats about your own body, right?

[00:29:11] Dr. Katie Deming: Like, that just doesn't make sense. Like, why would we not be, you know, examining? And so for me, like, when I get out of the shower and whatever, I'm… That's when I will, just basically have a time where I'm like, “Okay, this is what my normal is.” I think it's important for us to do that so that if something changes, then you would notice it.

[00:29:33] Dr. Katie Deming: And, and what… Your story is actually quite common that when someone feels it, oftentimes it's a partner who feels it rather than ourselves. And so I just wanna encourage women to do self-exams, because you're gonna notice changes in your body, if you're regularly touching your body. And so knowing that, what that feels like is really important, just as a baseline. And then

[00:29:57] Tara Elmore: I think so important

[00:29:58] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah. And I love the part that you talked about with lymphatics and, you know, using… That it's such, it's just really light touch for people to know that, you know, to move your lymph, it's like movement, like you described, exercise, or just that very gentle, and it doesn't require much. It's actually not pressing hard on the area.

[00:30:18] Dr. Katie Deming: It's literally just like brushing the skin is what moves the lymph through there. so yeah, that all of that makes so much sense.

[00:30:25] Tara Elmore: Yeah. And, and then lastly, I would say if I can get a little like woo or spiritual is like just having that connection and like I feel like the, the breasts are the gateway to the heart and just have this like sort of like a sacred feminine, you know, connection with yourself. If that resonates with you, great.

[00:30:46] Dr. Katie Deming: If not, you know, that's okay too. But like I just think there is something to that of just, you know, being in in spiritual connection with whatever it is that speaks to you. and the woman's body is like we create life, right? And if you think about the breasts, it's like that's how we nurture. And, and so much when we look at the spiritual and emotional connection between cancer and breast health, it's really connected. Like, if you look at German new medicine, I know that that's controversial, but it's very much tied to this nurturing and, like, feeling of loss that can be, associated with breast cancer.

[00:31:30] Dr. Katie Deming: And I think that having that– I love that you brought that up because I think that when we do any practice, whatever it is, whether it's self-massage, it's like you're connecting with yourself and the power that we hold. And as women, we are very powerful beings. We bring life into this world, and then we nurture it, and the breasts are really part of that.

[00:31:54] Dr. Katie Deming: So, um, I don't think that that's woo at all, and I think that that's absolutely who we are. And in, you know, in modern society, we've lost track of the power of the divine feminine and the, you know, women, you know, we've moved away from that. But I love bringing that back in for women to recognize you are powerful, your body is powerful, and it connects you to something greater than yourself

[00:32:21] Tara Elmore: I love that. Yeah, I, I totally agree.

[00:32:25] Dr. Katie Deming: you talk about, like, the, there's, like, 364 days between screening, right? And this is where women's power lives is, like, the time between, like, you know, a lot of times breast health is thought of as, like, “Okay, go get your screening mammogram,” or whatever it is, and but then there's this whole year in between.

[00:32:43] Dr. Katie Deming: like, for, you know, a listener who's exhausted by protocols and afraid to stop doing all the things, what does reclaiming those days look like for you? What does that mean?

[00:32:53] Tara Elmore: Yeah. Well, I think it means something different for everyone, but I would say the place where I think people can start is identifying your non-negotiables. So for me, it's usually about those three things that I will get done probably first thing in the morning before I do anything else. And for me, that's like, you know, I- meditation or some kind of spiritual practice, and time with my family.

[00:33:28] Tara Elmore: So, and I, I'm not picking up my phone, but well, all right, I pick up my phone to do the exercise, which is the last part of what I do, but that's it 'cause it's in the app. but I'm not checking email or, and you know, no shade if that's your thing, but I think it will help you anchor into building the habits that are gonna support you.

[00:33:49] Tara Elmore: So I think it's finding what your non-negotiables are, and they change. Like for me, those things have changed over time too. You know, when I was trying to build certain habits, I would put the new habit first, you know? And so that way you get in the practice of doing that. So I think it could be a, that's a really good starting place, and it's not that hard.

[00:34:08] Tara Elmore: It could be f- you know, whatever it is for you. It could be 30 minutes or hour total or whatever it is that you have time for. Maybe it's five minutes right now, starting there. And then I think beyond that it's about optimizing the terrain, which, you know, is a little bit more in depth and a little bit more complex.

[00:34:29] Tara Elmore: But I think if, you know, if there's a few areas… Should I talk about what the terrain is so

[00:34:36] Dr. Katie Deming: Yes. No,

[00:34:37] Tara Elmore: have a pretty good idea? Yeah. Okay. So, so, Dr. Nasha Winters and Jess Higgins Kelly wrote a book called “The Metabolic Approach to Cancer,” which is also kind of based in the science of Dr.

[00:34:50] Tara Elmore: Thomas Seyfried. right? Am I, am I nailing this from a medical point of view? Okay. You'll let me know. I'm not a doctor. and so they really outline how, you know, through your blood work and through genetic testing, you can get a fuller picture of what's really happening inside your body, and where you wanna put your attention to optimize, you know, different parts of your health.

[00:35:12] Tara Elmore: And so for me, that was sort of the, the, it's the grounding peace of mind that I get every… And at this point, I do it once a year, but there was a time where I would do more often and sort of be able to look at what are those, those changes that I need to, to make, and whether that's exercise or nutrition or sleep or, you know, a big one was investing in a whole, house water filter to make sure that I had really good quality water, air purifiers.

[00:35:43] Tara Elmore: And, you know, a lot of the things are free or inexpensive, and then some are a investment and might take time, right, to build up to. And so I think What could be overwhelming for people is how much there can be to do, but I, I would just beg you to start somewhere with something small rather than to think about like everything you have to do.

[00:36:05] Dr. Katie Deming: because also we don't want stress and, you know, then we're stressing about not stressing, and that doesn't, that doesn't work either. Well, and wanna insert something there where, you know, I think this is a real thing. And actually, I know this just from my own experience of leaving Western medicine and then realizing, oh my gosh, like there's so much toxicity, there's so m- that it becomes like scary that which like you described as like we don't want to increase the stress, but there's all these things that you can be doing.

[00:36:39] Dr. Katie Deming: And I love Dr. Nasha's book. That's a great resource for people of looking at like what are the different factors that I wanna be taking into consideration if I want to create a body that is no longer conducive to growing cancer, right? That's the whole point terrain is this idea of the body, if we take care of the body and then it's not conducive to growing cancer, that is the goal, right?

[00:37:01] Dr. Katie Deming: Rather than just treating the cancer and not worrying about the terrain that the cancer grew in in the first place. But when people realize how many different things there are to do, it's really important to step back and just say, ” No, just one thing at a time. I just need to do one change.” And like, and I don't need to rush through that change.

[00:37:21] Dr. Katie Deming: It's like, let me get this one thing implemented and get confident in it, and then you can choose something else because it is really overwhelming. And actually, this is one of the things that, my fasters, once they go through their experience of fasting and then they come out, a lot of them had been doing really complex protocols around their healing, and then they realize, they're like, “Oh, now I've just turned something that can be beneficial for me into like another trap of stress,” where their protocols have become this really stressful thing.

[00:37:54] Dr. Katie Deming: And so just for everyone, wherever you are, whether you're just coming out and you're looking at, okay, what is it that I wanna do, you know, to create, health in my body, or you're wanting to prevent cancer and create health in your body, or you're deep in the protocols and doing all the things, really being clear that it's progress over perfection.

[00:38:16] Dr. Katie Deming: And there is no such thing as perfection because people– everyone has a different body, and everyone needs different things, and using your intuition to say, “This is resonating with me. This is where I'm gonna start. This is what I need to do right now.” And in conquering that and then moving on and recognizing it's not a race, you know, this is a lifetime of health, and the more you make it a stressful event of like all these things, this checklist that I need to do, the further you get away from yourself.

[00:38:50] Dr. Katie Deming: So, I love all of that. It's beautiful.

[00:38:53] Tara Elmore: Yeah, that, that, that really resonates with me. And I think that for people, wherever you are in your journey, like it's, you know, it just, it… I don't wanna say it never goes away. That feels very unhopeful, but I think it evolves, and you might feel like you're ready to tackle everything, and then, you know, maybe you're like, “Oh, I need a break.

[00:39:16] Tara Elmore: This is exhausting.” And I think you have to sort of listen to yourself, and like you said, it's like, it's a lifelong thing, and sort of adopting that, like all of this is for me, and how it, it will only last if you figure out how to make it for you in your life and not try to just get through it or, you know, past it or something, if

[00:39:38] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah, it needs to be

[00:39:39] Tara Elmore: helps anybody.

[00:39:40] Tara Elmore: Yeah.

[00:39:41] Dr. Katie Deming: whatever is implemented. Well, Tara, it's been amazing to connect with you. Tell people where they can find you

[00:39:49] Tara Elmore: Yeah. So you can find us at wearecomplexcreatures.com. That's the website if any, um, if that resonates. Um, and you can find us on Instagram at, complex_creatures

[00:40:06] Dr. Katie Deming: Beautiful. Well, thank you so much joining me

[00:40:08] Tara Elmore: much for having me. Thank you. I love talking with you. Thank you

[00:40:12] Dr. Katie Deming: Today, Tara Elmore took us into the part of the cancer journey almost no one prepares you for, the stretch that begins the moment treatment ends and the roadmap disappears. We talked about why that last day, the day you're supposed to feel free, can feel more like standing at the edge of a cliff, and why for so many people, the after is harder than the treatment itself.

[00:40:35] Dr. Katie Deming: Tara shared the gentle practice she wishes every woman had been taught, how simply touching your own breasts can stop being a search and find mission and become something closer to connection, moving your lymph, learning your normal, coming back home to your body. And she told us what happened three months after her five-day water fast when her body did something no one said was still possible, and it brought her cycle back after the treatment had pushed her into chemical menopause.

[00:41:05] Dr. Katie Deming: If there's one thing I want you to carry out of this conversation, it's this: You have far more agency over your healing than you've ever been told. Your body isn't something to fight. It's something to trust. And that space after treatment isn't an empty cliff. It's where you get to reclaim yourself, one small, sustainable step at a time.

[00:41:29] Dr. Katie Deming: Thank you so much for listening. I know your time is valuable, and I am so grateful that you chose to spend time with me today. I release episodes every Tuesday, and I look forward to connecting with you on the next one. You heard what a single five-day water fast did for Tara's body. If her story stirred something in you, if part of you is quietly wondering what your own body might be capable when you finally give it the space to rest, I wanna invite you to feel that for yourself.

[00:41:58] Dr. Katie Deming: If you found today's episode helpful and you're ready to take radical ownership of your health, subscribe to the Born to Heal podcast now so you don't miss the answers conventional medicine never gave you. Take care, and see you on the next episode