Dr. Katie Deming MD: [00:00:00] What hidden messages might reach you when your body is completely still and your mind finally gets quiet after weeks without food. Today I sit down with my client, Donna Depa and her medical oncologist, Dr. Jason Connor from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Donna recently completed a 30 day water only fast during her ovarian cancer journey, and she and Dr.

Connor are here to share about that experience. I wanna reframe how we think about water fasting, because it's not just about the tumor. This conversation reveals a dimension of healing that goes far beyond the physical body, touching spiritual and emotional realms. We rarely discuss openly. Stay until the end.

To hear Dr. Connor's perspective as a conventional oncologist witnessing this process, you'll discover whether he supported this approach and what he observed in week three, when as he puts it, the shell started to crack.

This special episode shows what's possible when conventional medicine and [00:01:00] holistic approaches intersect creating space for a type of healing. Many never consider one that transforms not just the body, but our relationship with fear itself. Let's dive in.

Hello everyone. I'm Dr. Katie Deming and this is The Born Heal Podcast where we share practical tools and knowledge to help you create conditions for true healing in your life. Today I'm joined by two very special guests, one of my clients, Donna DiPane, and her medical oncologist from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, Dr.

Jason Connor. Welcome Donna and Jason.

Donna DiPane: Hi.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Thank you for being here.

Donna DiPane: Thank you.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: It's so nice to have you guys. So you know, the reason why I invited Donna and Dr. Connor onto the podcast is, you know, cancer is a team sport. [00:02:00] I've always felt that way when I was in conventional medicine and now in my holistic practice. And we really do better when we're all working together.

And Donna is a client who's been working with me for a year on holistic healing for ovarian cancer, and recently completed a 30 day water only fast. And unlike many of my clients doctors, Dr. Connor was very supportive of Donna's decision to fast. And so I wanted to bring both of them on here to share the experience of what this was like going through the fast.

And Donna had a very. I mean, I would just describe it as incredible experience. During her fast, it was much more than physical healing, and so I wanted her to be able to share her story. And then she was meeting with Dr. Connor weekly while she was having her fast, [00:03:00] and he witnessed a lot of this as well and has just such a beautiful perspective on healing as well.

And so I wanted to have them both share their experience. So I wanna start with you, Donna. What was it like for you to have your medical oncologist supportive throughout this holistic experience of water fasting?

Donna DiPane: Well, I'm just, I felt such gratitude to Dr. Connor for his willingness to participate in this. He has always been so supportive of me throughout my entire journey.

I started with him in August, right of I think 2022, right after my initial debulking surgery, and he is just. Brilliant yet so supportive of me and his gentle kind.

Nature just always puts me at ease. I probably was one of his fearful, most fearful and nervous patients, but [00:04:00] somehow he just has a way of just being able to calm me down. I would usually walk into the appointments, right Dr. Conner with like a whole page, my journal of of questions and all of these crazy alternative things.

And you never ever made me feel, you just always supported me in that you always listened to all my questions and supported me and explained things in a way that I could understand, which was important. I have zero science background. I'm just a mom. I was a preschool teacher, so I, this was, so, science is really outside of my comfort zone and you were just able to explain things to me always in a way that was.

I could understand, and I so appreciated that. And I just felt really blessed that you were willing to support me in this endeavor. And it was sort of miraculous the way it happened. I had my second recurrence and started chemo in November of, uh, of [00:05:00] 24. And I had brought up the idea of a water fast, but wasn't, I was intrigued by it and wasn't sure how the timing would work, if it was possible to do.

And so I ended up having a reaction to the drug and had to take a break from it to allow my cornea, the lesions on my corneas to heal. So Dr. Connor said at one point that this was sort of like the universe was sort of presenting me with a little break in time to do this. And the timing worked out perfectly that Dr.

Uh, Dr. Deming, you had a new fasting group starting and I was able to. Participate. And I just so appreciated, Dr. Connor, your support throughout this and coming in to see me and just listening and guiding me throughout. This just meant the world to me. So I felt Dr. Deming, I felt really safe with you guiding me.

And then with Dr. [00:06:00] Connor, I felt even extra safe because he was willing to step outside and really support me, but also seemed really interested in the whole process. So I was just so grateful. 'cause I know that was not everyone's experience, so I was very, I felt so, I feel so blessed always to have you in my life.

Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Well, and you know, Dr. Connor, you don't know this, but, and the audience doesn't know this, but during that fasting group, we had multiple people where their doctors really freaked out on them and really gave them a hard time and, and basically people having to. Let their doctors go because the doctors were scaring them and they were already had made the decision and were in the process.

but the, the experience of having doctors who are not supportive actually really can derail someone's experience of the [00:07:00] fasting and, and having, you know, obviously I'm supporting the fasting experience. They don't need another doctor to help them through the process, but to have someone who's willing to stay by their side while someone chooses to do this path that is outside of conventional medicine.

I know I watched Donna and saw how this just really made it so much more easeful for her and also helped her feel safe, which I think is such an important thing for people to feel safe and not scared. So I, what I'd love to ask you, Dr. Connor, is what made you decide to, you know, support her and stay by her side?

You know, the other thing is Donna lives in a state where you can't order your own labs. So she did need a doctor there in that state to order labs for her. And so you were able to order those labs, um, and follow those during her fast. So I'd love to find out from you, like [00:08:00] why, like what about this was intriguing or, you know, what were your thoughts when she first brought this up?

Jason Konner: Sure. No, it's a great question. Uh, and thank you, Donna, for all your kind words, by the way. Mean, part of my, my job frequently is to try to sort through what patients bring to me, uh, other ideas, and the questions come up all the time. What else can I do? Is it okay if I take this?

Is it okay if I do that? , and, you know, we're in a, this position of being experts and sort of the conventional process of what we do, but not necessarily, , experts in every, everything that's brought to us. Uh, for the most part. Um, it's usually supplements. Uh, or, or these days it's a lot of anti parasitics, um, and, and various other, various other things that patients bring to us.

And, you know, I try to remain open-minded about what patients might be doing, but I also have an obligation to watch out for their safety, uh, and to make sure that, [00:09:00] you know, they're not being taken advantage of by, by unscrupulous practitioners or they're not going to do something that's going to, to injure them or financially or physically or emotionally or, or take away from precious time, uh, to do other things.

So, you know, there's definitely, A balance there to both be, remain, uh, remain open-minded, but also use a good amount of discernment, uh, in what we're going to support. And, and, and ultimately patients can choose to do, you know, as they wish. But, uh, as part of this relationship with, which is a very sacred relationship, uh, being open and honest and, and and thoughtful about these things, I think is, is really critical.

Uh, and to give our honest, honest input. So, um, when Donna first, uh, came to me talking about the, the fast, uh, I certainly was a, a bit concerned about it. You know, uh, patients very often, will come to me with questions about fasting. Uh, usually it's either, uh, intermittent [00:10:00] fasting or time-restricted eating or fasting, you know, immediately before or after, uh, infusions of chemo or immunotherapy.

There's a variety of ways that fasting comes up, but are prolonged fast. Like this is something fairly unusual. Um, so, you know, certainly when I first heard about it, uh, I was concerned, is this going to be safe? Is she going to be okay? Not, not, not so much. What does this do necessarily? Because I, I wasn't really sure.

Um, but is she going to be okay? And, and certainly when, when, uh, when a patient has a gynecologic or an intestinal cancer, very often, uh, their digestive organs can be compromised. Uh, so that's often a concern, you know, is, is this going to, um, interfere with a critical need for nutrients, uh, at a delicate time?

And another issue is Donna's not, you know, not very large person. Um, you know, is there enough, is there enough meat on her bones to sustain this sort of thing? And, and, [00:11:00] and, um, also, how will this interact with her treatment plan? Uh, is it going to interfere with the treatment plan? Is it, is it not going to?

And so I I, I certainly was concerned, but but also didn't immediately dismiss it. And we talked about it. Uh, we talked about it a fair amount and tried to think about, you know, what does this mean? And it was very clear to me that it was something important to Donna. And, uh, I know that she has been working with you, Katie, for a long time.

And to me that was very important. Um, knowing, knowing you, knowing who you are, knowing what your background is, knowing your attentiveness to Donna, you know her extremely well. I. Uh, and are very attentive and caring. Uh, and that is really important because knowing who is going to be guiding this primarily, uh, to me is, is critical.

I need to, I need to have trust in the team. and so I was open to the possibility of it, but I wasn't sure if it was going to [00:12:00] happen because I, I thought, well, in principle, maybe we can do this, but in practicality, maybe not. Uh, and this was coming up as you were saying in November, which was a difficult time because we were seeing that, um, the cancer was progressing.

and I was not, uh, comfortable with the idea of not giving, um, conventional chemo, which, which I had some confidence in, at a time when it was needed in place of a process where I wasn't sure if that was really going to do what, what you needed at that time. Uh, and so. You know, it, we basically said, yes, let's, let's think about it and see if we could find the right opportunity maybe after this treatment.

Um, and, and that's how we left it and we started the new treatment. And then as you had said, uh, uh, fate, uh, gave us this opportunity. There was a wonderful response to the, to the [00:13:00] treatment. There was a toxicity that forced us to pause. And so it just, it just felt right. So I, I would say that, uh, just in a brief answer to your question, it was a culmination of, uh, really fleshing out the safety parameters for this, uh, from a medical perspective.

Uh, and a key part of that is, uh, relationships. And you, you talk a lot about the team, and that's a really critical component because my relationship with Donna, her relationship with you. And, and my relationship with you, which has had just begun really just getting to know you, but my, uh, you know, understanding and recognizing who you are and the seriousness you, you with which you take this process, um, was, was absolutely critical.

And also knowing your background as well.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Yeah. Well, I, I have to say that personally, I'm so appreciative of your open-mindedness and your willingness to even just explore it, you know? 'cause a lot of [00:14:00] doctors just immediately shut down because it is so far outside of the norm and, you know, you. I just wanna share this piece is even going before the fast is Dr.

Connor, you know, and I have been messaging and ha he's been so open and supportive of the work that Donna and I are doing together and it does really feel like a team and it, even though we're not on the same team, you know, I'm not at a Memorial Sloan Kettering, you know, I'm in this, you know, completely now holistic practice.

Although I do support a lot of people who are getting conventional therapy and obviously my background is in conventional therapy, but I. I to have doctors like you is just really a gift. You know, it's a gift for Donna, but it's a gift for me also because when you have everyone working together and you don't feel this fractionation, Donna's then not caught in the middle trying to decide who do I believe, who do I [00:15:00] trust?

And we're both doing our due diligence to make sure, you know, my job is to make sure that the process is safe of what she's doing. But then to have you trust, you know, in that and allow us to work through it and have you to actually see her, you know, through the process was just like the other clients who were fasting at the time were so jealous.

They were like, and one of them is in New Jersey and she's like, what's his name? How can I go see him? So I just wanna say that this is like, you know, and this is one of the things, is that when people want to pursue more holistic therapies. They sometimes end up really at odds with their conventional doctors, and then they feel alone.

And the one thing that I will say is, you know, from what I've witnessed is that Donna has felt so supported through the process. And that is healing in and of itself. Like that is part of our job, is to make sure people feel supported [00:16:00] and that we're not leaving them, you know, like whatever decisions that they make, you know, we, we were walking them through to, and like you said, for you it's, you know, you're wanting to make sure she's safe.

So of course if she was gonna do something that you felt like she was being taken advantage of or wasn't safe, you would say that and not, you know, follow that. But I think this idea. You're really, um, a model for what other physicians could do, you know? And, and part of what happens with the fast often is that the doctors freak out.

The clients do it anyway, and then they come back to the doctor, and the doctor sees the results, and then they're like, oh, well maybe there's something there. Right? But then the, the patient has basically experienced this feeling of being alone and abandoned through the process. So fortunately, Donna didn't have that.

Jason Konner: yeah. I, I, I got that message in, in, um, residency. An old man who was a patient of mine, uh, just told me I. About this [00:17:00] fear of abandonment as one of the key fears of, of someone in a vulnerable situation like he was going through cancer like that. And it really stuck with me. I, I always remembered his words.

Um, and I think sticking it out is, is an, is a moral, ethical obligation of an oncologist. I mean, this is, this is a patient's journey and, uh, I think the patient should really have, have the right to make their own choices about what they do, uh, and, and engage in open dialogue about this. And, and, you know, we don't always have to agree, right?

But to walk away I think is, is not the right answer.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: I love that. So Donna. You know, the fast as you've learned is, you know, a lot of people come into a prolonged water fast with this idea. The whole concept, right, for cancer is you go into ketosis, which if we think about cancer from a metabolic perspective, there's value in that, right? But then the idea of a prolonged water fast is to get into [00:18:00] autophagy where the body recognizes there is an additional nutrients coming.

And then the idea is, is that it starts to use diseased or dysfunctional tissue, you know, as the fuel, because the body doesn't want to use its vital organs, but there is so much more that happens than just that physical component. And also there's like the detoxification component. So you know, you're basically, when you go into ketosis and start using fat for fuel, you're dumping toxins that are stored in fat.

But for you, Donna, I'd love to have you share. What this experience of the water fast was like for you? What surprised you? Like what hap, what was, you know, what was happened in this experience that really was unexpected and what did it mean to you?

Donna DiPane: I think that there were many phases of it, and I first went into the fast thinking, oh, I'm [00:19:00] looking for physical healing. That was sort of my goal. I was hoping, I'm a spiritual person, so I was hoping to incorporate, um, some spirituality into it. I mean, I have 30 days with. Just myself there is, you know, no, no screen time can't go anywhere except to labs once a week.

And so I was going to have a lot of time on my hands. And the joke was, that was me as always thinking I was going to control the situation. And that was not at all what happened. Um, it, it did turn out, I would say the first phase maybe was physical more in that I, I did have, like you had said, like day four to day seven is when there is some like physical pain.

And I did have like achiness and stayed on the couch and I had some of that going on. So there was sort of that physical phase at first. Um, I had like shoulder pain and some ear pain and then I moved through that and then it seemed to move into this [00:20:00] second phase for me any, anyway, my experience of just this feeling of intense gratitude sort of overtook me and I just was feeling how.

Blessed I was to even have the resources to be able to do the fast and my weight was cooperating and I had an amazing oncologist who was willing to help me with this and support me. And it was just this really intense feeling of gratitude overtook me at that kind of like that second phase of it, maybe like the second week or so.

And it was just, I so appreciated my family, who really stepped in and supported me. They took care of everything in the house and of God and all of the people who were praying for me. There were so many of my friends were so supportive and just that whole aspect of it. And then after that it seemed.

Then, then came these messages that it, it was [00:21:00] really difficult to explain to someone, but I would, I was, I would be woken up at night, say usually like around 3:00 AM around that point. And I just started receiving something, said, get a pen and paper and start writing. So I just felt like I was getting these messages from, from God.

That's who it is for me. And I just had so much insight that there was just like so many messages that I got. I was just like writing and writing. I think I shared, I know I shared with you, um, Dr. Deming and Dr. Connor, I showed you some of it. Dr. Connor's always been, we always talk about healing and he has said numerous times that I really had to sort of.

Heal my emotional and spiritual side and deal with the fear that I had for true healing to take place. So I love that he was, spoke that language as well and was also interested in [00:22:00] that side of myself and supported me as well in that area. So I just had all of these messages about, about healing and then it progressed to, this might sound crazy to some people and I think I was almost afraid to share it with you, but there came a phase after where I was able to like see inside my body in a way, and I could see the, I could see inside and there was this brilliant radiant light that just poured out everywhere.

And I was able to see this really like gentle scrubbing. Gentle cleansing going on of the cancer cells for me that like. Battle language. Just it, it just didn't resonate with me. It just didn't make sense to me that that wasn't how my body worked. So to see that was really reassuring that, okay, is this what's going on?

Is there the cleansing of the cancer [00:23:00] cells? And, but it was very gentle, but it, it, it wasn't like explosions and all of that so that, that I could see that. And then I had a, I know it sounds very strange, but two of the nights I had an experience where I was able to unzip from my physical body and I wasn't really sure how to explain it.

Uh, but it was this light body. So I was like, is that my soul, my spirit, my, my light body? I wasn't sure what, but I, it like separated, came outside of my physical body. Like I was able to unzip from my physical body and I could see. This light body and it was just so full of joy there. It had absolutely no fear whatsoever.

And it was just, I could see an outline of a human body and it was just this brilliant light that just [00:24:00] danced about full of joy. And it was just to connect with that was so healing and to connect with that part of myself that I, I guess it's the energy that just lives on I, it was just very comforting and I was like, okay.

Was a little afraid to tell people about that. 'cause it sounds a little bit out there, but it was, it was real. It happened. I saw it. So I had the messages, I had that experience with the light body and then, you know, un the unzipping experience. And then I think the next phase of the fast for me sort of came.

Towards the end and it was trying to integrate all of the information at the very end of the fast. I had a feeling, I remember telling you, Dr. Deming of, it was like, I had all of these amazing things. I became a grandma, I became a grandmother. My, my daughter had the first grandchild, uh, just as a fast was ending.

And so [00:25:00] there were so many emotions. My son moved, uh, out's getting married in uh, September. And so it was all these really wonderful, great things were happening. And I had this really like dark sort of depressing feeling. I was just really down and I didn't understand. I felt guilty 'cause I felt, oh my goodness, I've been so blessed and I had this most amazing fasting experience.

Why do I feel this way? And then when I shared it with you, Dr. Deming, you were saying that it was sort of having to shed. The old me and kind of transition into this new way of being and that it can be scary. And it was just, it was such a transformation and I think that's something I think I'm going to have to continue to work with.

The integration of everything that I learned, there's so much that I've learned from the experience. I have a giant journal that I was transcribing every night, what I heard, and there was so much there. I know it will take me a long time to [00:26:00] integrate all of that and all of the lessons that I've learned into my life.

But I realized that that will take time and I hope I have time to do that. So, but it was just, so

much of the fear has been released. I think that was one of the major parts of the fast. Um, Dr. Connor knows that I was just paralyzed by fear, really my whole life. And certainly when you have a cancer diagnosis, it really blows up and.

I think the fastest really helped me to come to terms with a lot of that fear and use a lot of the tools that I used to deal with it. And just the experience of being in the presence of that light body and hearing God's message was so comforting and so much of his messages were about there's nothing to fear and just to release that fear.

So I really hope that I can live in that place. And I mean, for example, tomorrow I have labs and on [00:27:00] Friday I see Dr. Conner to review those. And typically I would be a nervous wreck and just so engulfed in my own fear and I've learned that it's really a choice and I can flip the coin. Do I wanna focus on love or on fear?

And certainly. Right now I wanna focus on love and just being in the presence of the boat with the two of you. And it's a much better place to be than being fearful. And I, I don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, I don't know, but I'd rather be in love and just try to live in the joy that I experienced from the fast.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: I love that. And you know, I think this is, for me, I knew that there was the possibility of this, you know, kind of spiritual opening and awakening and information to come through in a fast, Hmm.

To witness. It was so powerful. And I think for the listeners so that they understand [00:28:00] is like, you know when you do a fast and the initial part Donna's describing is like the first three days are hard 'cause you're hungry and you're getting into ketosis, and then day four to seven is this physical detoxification and then emotional stuff can come up.

But when you start to move through those pieces. Your body gets really clean and also your mind and your motions start to clear because you just, you know, you're doing nothing but the water. And then we're working on all these other pieces. We're doing calls and you know, Donna, did you know psych K is a technique that I use in my practice to help people manage emotions, release past trauma.

And Donna had done that. And so, but we had been working together for a year on all of this stuff with the fear and the emotions and a lot of work on that. But in the fast, what's beautiful is you start to get clear enough that you can really hear from your higher [00:29:00] self or God or whatever you wanna call it.

That information of the truth of that fear is really, you know, there's nothing to fear, right? And so the, to witness this, and I remember the first, you know, morning when you messaged me and you said. Someone told me to get a pen and paper last night and I have to share what came through. And you read it to the group and it was just, it was like so clearly from God, like so clearly that this was coming from a higher level of consciousness that I didn't expect that, like I, I, I, I had been fasting people individually and they would get clear.

But in this, the group setting, the way that this has happened and, and I'm seeing this more and more with people really starting to clear out and then it's almost like what people experience with doing plant medicine, you know, very similar, having that connection to the divine or, [00:30:00] you know, people describe those same things in a near death experience where they see the light body.

And actually for me, you know, with my experience of having, um, I. You know, seeing what happens as people transition. You know, I told Donna this when my mom transitioned and I was able to connect with her on a soul level. Mother Teresa came in and unzipped her, and her light stepped out. And I said, Donna, that's so beautiful.

And I said, I saw that exact same thing. And so I would love it if you would read one of these messages that you've received. So I think the one from Wednesday, 2 26 day, day 24 of your message, if you wanted

Donna DiPane: Mm

Dr. Katie Deming MD: there.

Donna DiPane: Sure. Day 24, I, I had written What a powerful day. I woke up at one 15. Something said to get paper and a pen and write. It said in quotes, you keep thinking that it's something you have to do, but it's something you have to be. You should embrace [00:31:00] life. Live in joy, live fearlessly. Do not allow fear to live within you.

Go into nature. Hike in the woods, embrace life. Be in awe of all living things. Live in Christ. Take Dr. Deming's advice for food. Spend time within your body. Appreciate its miraculous rebirth. Thank it for all that it did. Sleep to show it appreciation. Spend time in quiet contemplation to connect with my spirit, to hear my voice.

I will guide you and tell you exactly what to do. Don't push, just be, explore, cooking. Dive into the diet. Learn about cooking for the baby, learn more. Simplify. If fear creeps in, I will awaken you and set you back on the path of true healing. Okay, that was, that was the Wednesday, the 24. And then the next day, the same thing happened.

I woke up three 30 and received another message and I said, it was [00:32:00] so beautiful. But it said, um, it said I could share it if I learned to live with it, to live it. And every time I began to doubt, um, I was kinda reflecting on it. I wonder if I was thinking like, if I was making this up, I could hear the words, why do you doubt?

And, um, so I, I went back and I, when I reread the message the next morning, I realized that these were not. These weren't my words. So I summarized it and I said, God must truly love me so much that he is willing to meet me at night and speak directly to me. His words are clear, basically to let go of fear, to live in the joy of each day, to see the beauty of life, to be aware of the gifts he has bestowed upon me, and to not squander them, to not fear, to not question just be are the words that are repeated over and over again.

God said that there were many beings that were protecting me. He talked about the numerous gifts that I've been given, and if I enjoy them, there will be more, but if I squander them, there would be [00:33:00] less. He said, be open and I will be abundant beyond measure. His words are so beautiful, but they're strong and there is a warning in them not to worry, not to waste the gifts he said, to see through new eyes.

I'm being called to a new way to live. It's a gift, but also a duty and responsibility to live in God's way. Also to break this chain of fear, to not pass it on to this new generation. I have a duty to only show my daughter is baby love and joy Each day. Fear will have no place in this baby's life. I will not pass it on.

I know that God's spirit, the angels and guides, will surround this child, protecting it from any harm, blessing it, and anointing him or her. Th this was a day after her due date. So I ch I choose to live in joy and peace and harmony in the excitement and anticipation of each day to relish the smallest glimpses of heaven and all things.

And to thank God each day for all that he has provided me. And um, and that's the night also where I had the insight where I was able to unzip [00:34:00] from my physical body and step outside of it. And I said it was like an energy body, but all light. It bounced around. I saw this once before and then I was able to put it back into my physical body.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: So beautiful.

Donna DiPane: So it was, and there were so many, I had just, I have an entire journal of such powerful messages and the, the message I kept getting was to not fear and to just be, I didn't really have to do anything. I just had to be open. I had to appreciate my body, appreciate those who were really on my team and, and working with me and really working for my best outcome and, and to just be, and to stop forcing it.

I think I said all of the right things after I was first in remission, I so believed that I was healed, right? Dr. Connor, that I made you have my port taken out. I was like, why would I tell my body that I still need this inside? So [00:35:00] he, he agreed and I had the port removed and, um, so I think I was saying all of the right things.

Wanting, wanting to believe them so much. And I also were saying the right things because I didn't want people to worry about me, but there was still fear and there was still a lot more for me to learn. And so I think I, I don't know, like I heard all, I heard you, everyone telling me what to do and I said the, the right words, but somehow as a result of the fast, it just makes sense now to me on a different level.

That's very difficult to explain. People would say, don't worry about the number. Live your life. And like, okay. But I have a different understanding now that I just didn't before. It just opened up a whole new realm for me. That E everything just seems different.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Yeah. Well, and I think there's a difference between [00:36:00] understanding something and knowing it, and that's the way that I would describe through this past. And that's actually what people describe from plant medicine or a near death experience is like they understood the concepts before and they could consciously say these things, but to actually have the experience of knowing it in your being is different.

And that's is, would you describe it as that? It's like a knowing that now you have a deeper knowing of what that means to not fear.

Donna DiPane: Yes, de absolutely because I kept saying the right words and trying to believe it. And I mean, I had a powerful experience, but I think it was more forcing it and, and believing, but not, not knowing. 'cause there was still so much fear that there, there was just, there was still just a lot of fear.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Well, and Dr. Connor, so you were meeting with her weekly, so she was sharing these things. What was it like for you to [00:37:00] witness what was happening and going on for Donna?

Jason Konner: Sure. Um, well first thank you so much for reading that, that was just really so, so beautiful and powerful, uh, and, and, and inspiring. I haven't really witnessed anybody doing anything like this before, and so, um, I wasn't sure what to expect, but certainly I was fearful that she would show up week one in, in a wheelchair and drooling and an albumin of two.

And so I was a little worried. And, um, you know, when she, when she showed up, she was just very calm and quiet and, um, peaceful and pleasant. Um, still in, you know, still in a fear state, you know, which, which, uh, as you had mentioned, is something that you've, you've, you've dealt with for so long. Um, but. You know, just sort of peaceful in a way.

And, and, and that was the way I think for the [00:38:00] first two visits. And I was really pleasantly survi, uh, surprised to see this. And, and something though that, um, I thought was really extraordinary was, you know, I, I had anticipated someone just saying, I'm so hungry. I'm so hungry, I'm so hungry. But there was none of that.

And, and actually you brought us food every visit you brought the team food. And I found that extraordinary, really. And, and I think that speaks to that period of gratitude that you were, uh, flooded with. And, um, you were really being that and, and exhibiting that. And, uh, I was really, really moved by that. And, um, so I was very pleasantly surprised that the labs looked good. You're checking your labs, you're checking your vitals, looking at you, you looked intact. Uh, so cautiously optimistic that this was going to be all right. Uh, and I know that you had actually [00:39:00] put on a few pounds, um, before, before doing this, and, uh, early on you had lost a lot of pa, a lot of weight very quickly.

Uh, but then that seemed to stabilize. So that was, that was very reassuring to see. Um, I remember in week three, week three was in some ways similar to, to week two, uh, in this sort of calm demeanor and giving us food and the gratitude and nothing alarmingly dangerous going on, but there was something I picked up and I remember commenting to one of my, um.

Nurse practitioners that, that the shell is starting to crack. And, uh, so I, I sensed that, you know, while you, you know, while you were still fear fearful in many ways, something was starting to soften in you and I, I, I obviously didn't know where this was going, but I had that, I had that, uh, that feeling. and then, uh, [00:40:00] that fourth week when you came and you shared, um, some of those experiences that you just, that you just shared with us, it was extraordinary. It was just extraordinary. It was incredible to, to, uh, to witness, um, and, and to see you as you, as you were saying, it was something you were experiencing and feeling and exhibiting. It wasn't just, I. Platitudes, you were reading in a book, you were in that place of, of awareness where you had really connected with something, uh, much deeper and, and something very beautiful.

Uh, and I think everybody really felt that. And, um, I was just amazed. I was just amazed, very, very pleased. Um, and I wasn't sure what it all meant, and I, and, and that's okay. But it was just very clearly something very powerful and very beautiful. [00:41:00] So, uh, I was really privileged to, uh, to be there and to, to be part of that in some way and to witness it. And, um, so yeah, it was, it was incredible. It really was.

Donna DiPane: Thank you.

Jason Konner: yeah.

Donna DiPane: It was so wonderful to see you like come in and see me each week. That meant so much. You don't even, I don't even think you realize how much that meant. 'cause I wasn't sure. I was scheduled to see the nurse practitioner. I wasn't sure if I'd see you. And then when I would, I'd just be like, it just warms my heart.

I just felt so good and was excited to share with you. It was just, and then to see your excitement made me feel even more confident in the experience and

Jason Konner: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think we, we were aligned in the sense that, you know, we, we, we felt okay, this was for, uh, physical healing, uh, in some of the ways that, that Dr. Deming described. Uh, and that maybe there'd be something, you know, spiritual or emotional, uh, coming out of [00:42:00] this. but certainly the latter were just so, uh, pro prominent and evident and, and powerful that, that, that, um, that was just extremely moving and taught me, taught me a lot of things for sure.

Donna DiPane: hmm. It, it was unexpected for me. 'cause again, I really thought, oh, it's gonna be about not eating. And hopefully this will clear up. Me just giving my body the break and removing all the toxins, it will allow some healing, some of the cancer cells to be washed away. And that was my goal and I was completely, it was such an unexpected surprise.

Th that there was, it was so much more of a spiritual and emotional cleanse than I had ever anticipated. Yeah. And so, and Dr. Conner, I, I, I think I remember, well first we have the same birthday, so I always felt a connection with you. And, um, I think I told you kind of early on that I actually, I remember one of our first visits [00:43:00] when I asked you what your most successful patients did, you told me that they, um, you know, of course do all the treatment and everything, but then that they work with shaman.

And I was like, okay, what's a shaman and where do I find one? And little did I know that this would all come about. And I think I told you early on also that I just had this really strange feeling that we were meant to figure something out together. And I had no idea what it was. So, I don't know if it was this, but just sharing this with you made it extra special.

So I'm so, so grateful.

Jason Konner: thank you. Well, it's, it, it's certainly all connected in some way and I, you know, I, I appreciate that you came to me with a very open-ended question. Which I think was very smart. Uh, and patients are usually coming to me with, you know, should I take this supplement or not? Or, or what should I eat?

Um, and, and I try to answer that as best as I can. But, you know, you came to me with this question, in your experience, what have you seen? [00:44:00] And, uh, I've had a lot of experience and I've seen some things, so I just gave you an honest answer. And, and I have seen, um, an a small number of patients who have had extraordinary, um, uh, outcomes with their disease after working with shamans.

And, and that was just a truthful answer. Um, and that's not something I was able to explain to you. Uh, and, uh, I wasn't able to give you, you know, a list of shamans to choose from. Uh, but it was really just an honest answer. So, um, you know, I have a couple of tales from my, from my history, uh, and, and you listened, you listened sincerely and, and found your path and, and found your way to Dr.

Deming. And, and here we are.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: That's So, you know, I don't talk about Don Javier very much, um, the podcast, but I think this is maybe a good time to explain how that came together of that, [00:45:00] this idea that Dr. Connor had said, you know, that he had seen these incredible healings happen with people who work with shamans. And then maybe you can explain just a little bit of the work that we do within the fast and.

Don Javier, the connection that you have with now, a very powerful shaman in the process of this healing and the fast, you know, for the listeners, the work, I have a partner in my work and my partner is a very powerful medicine man and shaman. His name is John Javier. He is an illuminated being who comes in, remembering who he is.

The rest of us, we come in and we forget, and the goal of this lifetime is to remember the love that light, that that beautiful light body that you described is what we come here to ultimately remember. That's who we are. And so Don Javier is the one who guided me. [00:46:00] To do the water fasting. I did not want to do this.

Like, I was scared. I was like, that sounds crazy. You know, kind of like Dr. Connor's initial impression was like, that sounds nuts. As a conventional doctor, I had never thought about that. And then it's just come up, you know, and it kept coming up over and over again. And then I was sending clients to fasting centers and the refeeding was, in my mind, not the right refeeding for people with cancer.

And so ultimately decided to form this fasting group, and Donna was one of the first people within the fasting group. I had fasted people individually, but maybe you wanna describe just a little bit about that and, and maybe what you think the influence of Don Javier was on this process of your, you know, knowing, you know, that knowing the love and the, that the fear is, you know, not where we're meant to live.

Donna DiPane: so I [00:47:00] definitely felt his presence and I think that he was part of kind of what was waking me up at night and telling me to get up and to, to pay attention to what was being said to me. And so I, you know, I have like doing the bowl, the whole bowl thing with the charcoal

Dr. Katie Deming MD: So maybe let's explain that for the

Donna DiPane: Oh,

Dr. Katie Deming MD: since most people don't know this, but my clients who are open to working with him and it's not required. So I have many people who don't wanna do, you know, work with him through the elements, although he does hold the frequency for the group. So he is supporting my whole.

Practice and the group that is fasting, but for those who want to have him helping in the healing process, and he works on the lightbody. So it's beautiful that Donna's describing the Lightbody. And this is [00:48:00] exactly what Don Javier is working on, that my clients who work with him, they put a bowl of water with natural charcoal in the water under their beds at night, basically around, you know, it's at the chest level and while they're sleeping, he's working on their energetic body or light body to help with the healing energetically.

So Donna had the bowl with the charcoal. So sorry, I just wanted to explain that a little bit. And so you felt that at night you felt that connection with him and.

Donna DiPane: Right? Yes. And I would, many nights, if I had questions, I would in my journal, write what my question was and just leave it open on my bed. And there, then when I would wake up, I would get an answer. Typically, I would get like that message or whatever. So I just felt like, like he and God were just working together and, and supporting me throughout this.

And I was getting answers [00:49:00] to so many questions that I had and things that I just was unclear about. And I just received a lot of insight and guidance from him and knowing that he was also working on me energetically was just very comforting. And I, I knew, yeah. It's weird this week because I know he's, he's, um, he's, he's not like, this is the week that he's not working with us and, but it was just.

I could just like, feel his presence and, and know that he also wanted the best outcome for me and was guiding this, the whole fasting process. And it just seemed like so much happened. Within 30 days, it seems impossible that that much could happen. I had so much fear and the fact that I could chip away at that to this extent.[00:50:00]

There were so many guides that were, you know, helping, helping me along the way. So, and I know he was a big, a big, very big part of that, which I'm very appreciative of.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Yeah. He well, and I'm so grateful, I feel so privileged to work with him. Such a powerful healer. And the, you know, I didn't even know what this fasting was about. It wasn't until like, you know, mid, you're probably in your third or fourth week where I finally realized, I'm like, oh my gosh, we're leading people on vision quest.

That's what this is. This is a vision quest. And you know, and he's like, of course that's what's going on. You know, but I was thinking we're, you know, doing the autophagy and the healing, and I knew that there would be things coming through, but as I started to see this unfolding, I was like, oh my goodness.

He's holding the frequency and the energy and then I'm guiding you, you know, through the process. And we're doing daily calls and we're talking about all of these spiritual things as well, you know, each day as [00:51:00] we're going through it and teaching you, you know, nutrition and how to eat to really nourish your body and reset your microbiome after this.

But that. It, it really is this sacred experience that people are having. And, and it was a vision question and that to me was news. Like I didn't, you know, I started it. A lot of this path for me has been, you know, I just follow the signs and I'm like, okay, water fast keeps coming up and people are asking it for it from me, and I send her these centers.

And that's, I know that's not the right thing for my people in the way that I want them to be eating as they come out of the fast. And so ultimately decided to do this, but then really didn't understand the magnitude of what would be created through that. And I'm wondering, you know, you have a journal entry from two 15, day 13 of the fast that I think is really beautiful to describe kind of what this, um, fasting experience was like.

I'd love to have you read that.

Donna DiPane: sure, sure. [00:52:00] Um, I wanted to say first that I remember Dr. Connor saying once that you are all healers, but that you use different tools. And I think that's how I was thinking about Don Javier also is that. He's also a healer and he has different tools that he's bringing to the table and it really takes an entire community of healers.

My team is huge, so I'm really blessed. But, so yes, day 13 of the fast. Um, and this was one of the journal entries I woke up with the distinct feeling that the first two weeks of the fast was for my body to clear toxins, and that is preparing now to fight the cancer. Everything I've done before now seems so futile.

I can see why it didn't work. I was throwing little changes on top of a big mass. I had clear, I clearly had to strip down to ground zero to go below ground level and then build up feel state. Fasting is clearly the only way to truly heal. I think this is allowing me to strip down to the emotions that have not allowed [00:53:00] me the space to heal.

I can see now why I needed this final recurrence. As and awakening. I don't think any of the techniques would've worked without first stripping down. Thank you Don Javier, for giving Dr. Demmon the inspiration to guide us. It's like I heard all of the information before and what to do, but it couldn't have worked without stripping all the way down and then rebuilding.

It was like building a nice home or redecorating on a faulty structure. And I think, I think that's sort of what I was doing. Um, even before I had cancer. I was a crazy person in terms of my health. I was obsessed with it. My primary doctor was shocked when I ended up with the stage four diagnosis. 'cause he said I was one of his healthiest patients.

He was so confused. But I think that I was taking supplements, running around in circles, but it was all out of fear. So I was so fearful of, of getting cancer. So of course I did. [00:54:00] That's what I, all of my motivation for being so obsessed with my health and trying every possible thing there was, was to avoid cancer.

And I think in thinking about that, that's exactly what I created. And um, so it was, it was really just stripping down and I just, I think the fast for me was just like a divine pause to just stop and really look at what was going on and just to strip down to the basics and to just remove some of those emotions and just to process them and to move through them so that I could move out of a fear state because I.

That everything for me was about fear. I was, I don't know why, but I was just always very fearful of not being enough, of not being good enough of, of cancer, of someone in my family getting sick. [00:55:00] So it was just, I was just really, really, really lived in that state, which is not a good place to be. It doesn't lead to a good outcome, obviously.

I've learned that. So living in love and all possibility is such a better place to be.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: beautiful. Well, I just wanna thank both of you for just the humans that you are, because I love both of you. I'm just so grateful to be in your spheres and to be working together. I hope Dr. Connor, that this has changed your impression of water fasting. Maybe actually that's a question for you now.

What do you think about water fasting now?

Jason Konner: Well, I think it's a, it's a great question and I think it's not, it's not right for everybody. I think it's an incredible tool. I think that, uh, this particular situation, um, worked out really well because we have a patient who, uh, had a really beautiful intention for it and was really [00:56:00] dedicated to doing it right.

Um, we had, uh, Dr. Deming. Uh, and, and Don Javier, uh, who are, who are, you know, watching over, you know, what this is all about. And, and guiding this with, with, um, with integrity and care. Uh, we had me, who's looking at the medical side of things and being supportive. We have your husband, Donna, who was incredible.

Uh, and, and I'm not sure he would've come up with any of these ideas, but he was always so supportive. Uh, and, and we really planned this carefully. Um, and so, and yes, you, you know, and you were able to take that time for yourself. Not everybody's able to put together a team like this, uh, have, uh, an, an opportunity, you know, that's medically safe like this. but I think that, um, it clearly had a, a really remarkable, uh, effect for you. Uh, certainly, um, you know, some of what you've shared is just extraordinary. And if, if other patients, um, going through something similar, it [00:57:00] could even touch, touch that. It would be amazing. Uh, there, there are other ways of approaching this.

I mean, Katie, you mentioned plant medicines. Uh, there's, there's drumming, there's ecstatic dance, there's, there's all sorts of, of ways to sort of, uh, get out of that fierce state and connect with one's higher self or with a divine or with spirit, uh, something deeper. So, you know, in individuals can explore what's what's right for them.

But I think this, uh, type of path, uh, is really essential, uh, for the wholeness of the, uh, the healing journey.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Yeah, well, and it isn't for everyone and so people are, you know, it's, there are a lot of people who come to me and I'm just like, that's not, you know, this is not the right path for you. So I, I definitely agree with that. And I think, Donna, what would you say to someone who, you know is thinking about this?

Like, because actually what's really interesting is, you know, fear was a big thing before the [00:58:00] fast, but also going into the fast, there was a lot of fear about the fast and that when you first came in and were really, really nervous. I'm wondering if you have any words to someone who's considering a fast and if it was appropriate for them, what are your words to them?

Donna DiPane: I think I was wor most worried that I would lose weight too quickly and then I would have to stop and that it, it wouldn't work. For me. And so that was, I think, the source of a lot of fear for me. And like I was okay with not eating. That wasn't really that difficult. I had fasted, I always fasted like before and after chemo.

Ne never to this extent ever, but you made me feel really safe. I, I knew once you explained the whole process and I knew that it would be safe. And having Dr. Connor's support, just not having to choose between [00:59:00] conventional or a holistic approach was such a gift. And, and just said it worked out that I was able to try both, but if somebody w were nervous, I would it, I just trusted that it was the right thing for me and I.

I didn't know if the timing would be right. I didn't know how it would happen. I didn't know if we'd be able to take a break from chemo at a point. I just wasn't sure. And it was like God took care of it. The universe kind of opened up this, this little window of opportunity, and so I took that as a sign that it was a go and I was meant to do this.

So I think it's just trusting and going within and for someone to just see if it feels right, if it sounds right to them.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Yeah, and for for me, it did.

yeah, and I think that's the most important thing too, is you know, just because maybe it's safe for you to do it, [01:00:00] or this is something that is an option, but for people really to. Tune to what it does it feel right for me. And then also, if it's right, the things will align. You know, and like Dr.

O'Connor says, not everyone has the resources or a, you know, supportive spouse or you know, family that will allow them to take that time or a job to allow, allow them to take the time off to do this. But really, if they're able to, the most important thing for me, I always say for my clients is like really tuning into like, what feels right for you, and then following that, you know, and then, and then the, like you said, the, the, the universe will line up to make it happen if this is the path for you.

So thank you. Well, thank you both for being here. It's such a privilege to talk to you. And, um, thank you to everyone for listening.

Donna DiPane: Thank you both so much. I appreciate you.

Jason Konner: Thank you, Katie. Thank you, Donna. I'll see you soon.

Dr. Katie Deming MD: Take [01:01:00] care. Okay. Thanks.