[00:00:00] Dr. Katie Deming: Ever wonder why despite eating all the right foods, you still feel exhausted, bloated, or unwell? Today I sit down with Monica Carrado, known as the GAPS Chef, a pioneer in traditional food preparation who teaches people how to truly nourish their bodies.

[00:00:18] Dr. Katie Deming: With over 25 years experience, Monica explains why certain foods we think are healthy might actually be harming us, and why others like animal fats are essential for true healing. You'll learn why most people are severely undernourished, even when eating what is considered healthy, why your nervous system needs fat to heal, and why plants alone can't provide what your body needs to rebuild itself.

[00:00:45] Dr. Katie Deming: Stay until the end to hear Monica's advice about how much butter you should actually be eating daily. It's probably way more than you would guess. Let's dive in.
[00:01:00]

Hello, everyone. I'm Dr. Katie Deming, and this is the Born to Heal podcast, where we share practical tools and knowledge to help you create conditions for true healing in your life. Let's welcome Monica Corrado, Teaching Chef and the Gap Chef. Welcome, Monica.

[00:01:21] Monica Corrado: Hi Katie. Thanks for having me. So,

[00:01:23] Dr. Katie Deming: nice to have you here. Okay. So I want to start with something that I've heard you say. So I've heard you say, Hey, do you think bone broth heals? Think again. And I think this actually caught me off guard when I first heard you say that. Cause I'm like, yeah, of course bone broth heals. Tell us, tell us all the things about bone broth and why bone broth doesn't heal.

[00:01:48] Dr. Katie Deming: Maybe.

[00:01:49] Monica Corrado: yes, bone broth. I wrote an article about this a while ago called The Dark Side of Bone Broth. So what's the dark side of bone broth? Um, the dark side is [00:02:00] glutamic acid. So everybody's on the big bone broth thing of let's, let's get those bones, let's cook 'em for hours and hour days. Let's cook 'em for days and days and days, and that's what's gonna heal your gut.

[00:02:12] Monica Corrado: And the reality is no. Uh, bone broth is very high in glutamic acid. Glutamic acid is an excitotoxin, a neurotoxin that works on their frontal lobe. And people that have leaky gut have what we call leaky brain. And glutamic acid can be very, very neurologically harmful. disruptive, dysregulating. So bone broth is not the be all and end all for leaky gut.

[00:02:38] Monica Corrado: In fact, it's meat stock. So meat stock is a short cooked stock made of meaty bones. And I have to say, it's such a wonderful thing because meat stock is a meal too. So, so it's a meal and it heals. I call it the one pot meal that heals. That's my little ditty. but yeah, [00:03:00] um, it's a wonderful thing because you can have a meal of meat stock that's healing your leaky gut and then you can save the bones for, you know, maybe down the road if you've got a big freezer, probably six, eight, 12 months down the road, whatever.

[00:03:14] Monica Corrado: But, yeah, it's an interesting thing. Bone broth really took off, um, and I'm not saying that bone broth is not a healing food and that bone broth can't be helpful once you've healed and sealed a leaky gut. But it's not the gut sealer and, um, it can be really, really irritating to the gut, problematic, give you headaches and really trigger nervous system.

[00:03:37] Monica Corrado: Symptoms, and I work with, I tend to work, or I have worked with a lot of children on the autism spectrum and families with autistic kids and, um, and families that have children with, that have seizures and things like that, and glutamic acid can trigger seizures. And that's what bone broth is really high in. So, and then of course now it's like not only the bone [00:04:00] broth, but let's buy powdered bone broth and let's put it in our everything. I'm like, process food folks. Not going to help you. So

[00:04:07] Dr. Katie Deming: Well, I think that that. That piece of information. I remember. So, you know, you and I came together. We connected through Tom Cowan's clinic, who you work with Tom. and, and then you and I started working together on the refeeding for my fasting, my water fasting, because Refeeding is so important and when you brought this in and my people heard you say like no bone broth and they just like their minds were just like blown and really, you know, because I think, especially in the cancer world, people here, you need to seal your gut.

[00:04:43] Dr. Katie Deming: It's important for your microbiome, which all of that is true. But even I didn't really understand this. Until you came and started teaching me and my people about this. And then the other beautiful thing, like you said, meat stock is a meal. Like, so it's not just the bones. And [00:05:00] then also, by the way, you only have to cook it for an hour and a half, two hours.

[00:05:03] Dr. Katie Deming: Right. So it's

[00:05:04] Monica Corrado: chicken. Yep. Very, very short. Yep.

[00:05:07] Dr. Katie Deming: So, um, it's actually a beautiful thing. And, and, um, we're making meat stock in my house today. So I love it.

[00:05:13] Monica Corrado: Me too! Imagine that. Once you start, and the interesting thing too is that we're not, it's something that like, people always used to eat this way. This is not new folks. This is like, put the chicken in the pot, add the water and the veggies and cook it, right? Chicken soup. We've, we've heard about that for, Generations, right?

[00:05:33] Monica Corrado: Like, you're sick. Go have some chicken soup. Hmm. This is really what, what this meat stock thing is all about. It's, it's really going back to what I call nourishing traditional food. Like, what did your grandmother cook? What is your great, depending on how old you are, what, what did your great grandmother cook?

[00:05:51] Monica Corrado: Right?

[00:05:52] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah.

[00:05:52] Monica Corrado: Right. That's what they cooked. They put the chicken in the pot. They filled it with water, a little bit of salt, maybe some herbs. How about some carrots, right? [00:06:00] They cooked it until the chicken was done. Oh boy, this is so yummy. That's what we're talking about.

[00:06:06] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah.

[00:06:07] Monica Corrado: And that's really the nourishment, right?

[00:06:09] Monica Corrado: It's food that comes really underneath and nourishes you. It's nourishing. It's, it's yummy. It's delicious. It smells good in the house. It turns on your ta like your enzymes start, you know, you smell it and your stomach, your brain gets the signal to start producing that stomach acid. You know, you're walking to a house with some.

[00:06:31] Monica Corrado: Chicken soup on the stove and you're like, ah, right? Like just thinking of it. I'm ready. Yeah. We'll be eating later.

[00:06:38] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah. Well, and you know, I'm going to actually bring up something else that when you said I got like a bunch of questions after this and I think this is, you know, you had said people think that a little, you know, chicken, a serving of chicken and then some broccoli is like nourishing food. And actually like I got multiple messages were like, what did she mean by [00:07:00] that?

[00:07:00] Dr. Katie Deming: And so. Let's start with that, because I think that leads us into some of the topics that I want to talk to you about. Um, but why is a meal of like a chicken breast and a little bit of steamed broccoli not nourishing for our body?

[00:07:16] Monica Corrado: It's just, yes. And, and let's, let's really qualify it. I mean, really, where have people gone? This is boneless, skinless chicken breast. Right? It's not just chicken breast with the skin, right? With that connective tissue, that, that fat underneath. No. So yeah. Yeah. The funny thing, I think I said to you is chicken breast or a steak, right?

[00:07:37] Monica Corrado: Like we've all gone to like a piece of meat that's really lean. So chicken's perfect with steamed broccoli. Yeah. Right? Doesn't. I don't know. It just became the thing, right? It's been the thing for 20 or 30 years, maybe 40 years. I'd say 1985, but we can talk about that later. Long time, right? So why is that not nourishing to your [00:08:00] body?

[00:08:00] Monica Corrado: Because your body needs fat. Your body needs fat, animal fat. Your body needs Connective tissue, collagen, I mean, we're all doing collagen powders. Let's put some collagen powder in my coffee in the morning, right? Like collagen powder. No, no, no. Let's just eat the meat with the skin. Let's eat the meat with the skin and the fat.

[00:08:26] Monica Corrado: This is where things like meat stock, uh, really, really, they're so nourishing because there's the fat that's in there. There's the, the skin is in there. the protein is in there, right? It's all there. And, and the body really needs the fat, the animal fat to be able to feel truly nourished. And yes, we could talk about this for hours, really.

[00:08:51] Monica Corrado: I mean, I, uh, yeah, I just filmed a class called healthy fat is where it's at and it's all animal [00:09:00] fat.

[00:09:00] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah, so why are animal fats so important? Why do we need animal fats?

[00:09:05] Monica Corrado: , they're the easiest for the body to use, right? They're the closest to our own I don't know what you want to call it, our own makeup as mammals, right? And so the body really needs these, these animal fats with various levels of saturation. Right? So every animal fat has a different level of saturation and we know this because when you render tallow, we don't have to go there, but people I hope know tallow.

[00:09:34] Monica Corrado: So tallow would be beef fat or lamb fat or bison fat or elk fat, game, whatever. When you have tallow, it's, it's, it is, um, saturated is it's firm at room temperature like solid. Right? That, so then we know that those things are higher in saturation and then things like duck fat. Okay. Or, uh, goose fat, which is oh so good on those roasted vegetables, oh my god, [00:10:00] is much less saturated.

[00:10:02] Monica Corrado: So that would be, uh, a little bit more liquid at room temperature. But we need, the body needs all of these things. The body needs all the, different levels of saturation in the fat. Um, and you know, then we get to why, well, because you actually need fat for, for every cell of your body. For every cell, every cell wall needs saturated fat.

[00:10:25] Monica Corrado: Your brain is made of fat. The first food that you got from your mother was fat, mostly fat. How do brains develop with high fat breast milk, right? So, uh, what else can we go into? Uh, all of your hormones need fat. I mean, we could go on and on, right? So, you need it. And, and. The less you eat, the harder your body is going to have to work to produce the types of building blocks it needs, like cholesterol, right?

[00:10:58] Monica Corrado: You could take all the cholesterol [00:11:00] out of your diet, and your body would still create what it needs. Because it's needed. I mean, that's, you need it for repair. It's a hormone. You need it for repair. So anyway, we need, we need those, uh, saturated fats and they are the fats that will be nourishing to you.

[00:11:17] Monica Corrado: They, they will calm the nervous system. It's so funny, , when I work with my clients, I'm like, okay, you really need to eat a lot of fat. And of course, Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride, who is the GAPS? You know the, I call her the key Rex. She's the creator of the GAPS diet. The, the original here, your leaky gut diet.

[00:11:38] Monica Corrado: Yeah. She, any question you ask is almost, she answers was they need more fat. They need more fat. And so when I teach, you know, I'll say to people, well, are you adding, are you having enough fat? Oh yeah. Well, can you tell me how much you're having? Oh yes. I have olive oil and avocado and I go, my eyes roll back in my head.

[00:11:59] Monica Corrado: [00:12:00] Great. Olive oil and avocado are great, but they should be 20 percent of what your fat is like. Like they're great. Olive oil is, you know, monounsaturated. Avocado is a really a fruit. Okay. Fabulous. But we really need fat. So when I work with people, I'm, I ask them to please get their grass fed, right?

[00:12:24] Monica Corrado: Pasture raised organic raw butter. If they can, the best quality you can get, take a stick, put it in a bowl, let it soften. And eat that all day long. Eight tablespoons, one stick a day. Start there. Some people need to go to 12. Right. Like 12 tablespoons, two sticks, 16 tables, right? Like this is how much our bodies need.

[00:12:45] Monica Corrado: And the more, especially people that are under stress, who could that be? Anybody? Right. Like anybody who's under stress of any kind, whether that's, I'm running a marathon stress or like I'm working a hundred million hours a week [00:13:00] stress, or I just got a diagnosis stress. I mean, there's all sorts of things going on here, right?

[00:13:05] Monica Corrado: So the more stress you have, the more fat you need. Yes.

[00:13:08] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah, well, and this is something that I always say, especially with healing cancer, holistically and naturally. The first thing that I work on is helping people calm their nervous system because you cannot heal when you have a dysregulated nervous system. And I'm always telling them you need more fat.

[00:13:32] Dr. Katie Deming: And actually what you just described is like I just saw a new client yesterday. And she was going through and I said, well, what fats are you eating? And exactly that, like a little bit of olive oil on a salad dressing and some avocado. And that was it. And, but this is actually, so I know that a lot of people, when you just set a stick of butter a day, and I know that you, some, some of your clients for the GAPS diet do like two sticks of butter a day, but like, tell us in context of that, [00:14:00] like if someone's eating like a bunch of processed food and, you know, this is like getting the foundations, right.

[00:14:07] Dr. Katie Deming: You don't want to be eating a stick of butter on top of a diet that is, you know, high in processed food and, and all of these other things, because then people, or do you, are you saying like, as someone's making the changes, obviously I know that you, processed food should be a no no for anyone, but. a lot of people are eating very high carbohydrates.

[00:14:27] Dr. Katie Deming: Like say people come to me, they're actually coming from plant based because they've been told that I'm supposed to do plant based if I want to heal cancer. And so someone like that is doing, you know, quite a high carbohydrate diet. And then they are doing some processed food because they haven't yet gotten to that point where they understand that.

[00:14:44] Dr. Katie Deming: So we're working out of that. But would you start someone like that on a bunch of fat or would, is this only once you've really transitioned to a diet that is, you know, meat based with healthy fats where you would be encouraging people to eat that much butter?

[00:14:58] Monica Corrado: No, I think [00:15:00] everyone needs it. In fact, I think people who eat really bad diets need it even more because they're starved, they're malnourished, they are malnourished, they are starving. And there's so much bad fat in what they're eating that we need to turn the tide somewhere. So their brains will start working better if we start giving them healthy fat.

[00:15:19] Monica Corrado: So as you said, I mean, I've been working for, you know, 25 years or more, oh yeah, already, in like trying to teach people or. being available to, for people to learn about traditional food, nourishing traditional real food, no processed food. Why? All those things, you know? Um, so of course we want people to not be eating processed foods.

[00:15:43] Monica Corrado: Of course we want them to be eating the cleanest food they can find. Yes, I mean, that has to happen for people to be well, but let's, no matter what they're doing, let's get them some real fat. So that's organic, grass fed, you know, pasture raised, sometimes [00:16:00] they call it one or the other, raw, if you can get it.

[00:16:03] Monica Corrado: Butter or ghee. One or the other. Butter or ghee. Cultured butter best, easier to digest, less sugar, no lactose, etc.

[00:16:14] Dr. Katie Deming: Okay, great. Because I know people are going to have that question. They'll be like, what? You know, number one, I think that people are shocked by that.

[00:16:21] Monica Corrado: they're gonna be shocked.

[00:16:23] Dr. Katie Deming: yeah,

[00:16:24] Monica Corrado: They're gonna think I'm absolutely nuts a rooney, but I don't care. People feel better. People will feel, in fact, I throw down it's kind of like a challenge. Like, okay, so I'd have to give like a disclaimer. First of all, do not go. I really, I'm really not saying that people should go from a tablespoon that they measure out of olive oil and a, you know, a bite or a bite or an avocado or of an avocado to eight tablespoons of butter in one day.

[00:16:49] Monica Corrado: They will vomit. They will not be happy. Their gallbladders will be, I mean, it's just going to be, so this is a work up to. It's always gradual when I work with people. It's always [00:17:00] gradual. Like where are you now? Okay, so you are doing that. So let's start with maybe a tablespoon of butter today for a week or three or four days and really listen to the body.

[00:17:10] Monica Corrado: We're always listening to the body. What does the body say to you? I'm I and then I challenge people, you know, like just do a stick of butter for a week. and see how much faster you are in terms of thinking, how much more focused you are, how much calmer you are, how much better you sleep. I mean, there's all sorts of things.

[00:17:32] Monica Corrado: But again, get a good quality butter. Of course, I'm not saying walk into the grocery store and get conventional butter and go eat it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying good, clean butter. It has to be clean, right, because toxins are stored in fat. So it has to be clean and listen to your body. We know that nausea is the body's signal or flag when it says, I can't take any more fat right now.

[00:17:57] Monica Corrado: I can't process any more fat. It's totally [00:18:00] normal to get nauseous if you're having too much and that's, that's an easy way to go. Oh, okay. So I got to three tablespoons. I started feeling nauseous. Okay, so stay at three tablespoons until feels great, and then a couple days, maybe two days, three days, five days.

[00:18:17] Monica Corrado: Also, um, we have an epidemic of, uh, missing gallbladders in this country. So again, if you do not have a gallbladder, I'm sorry, um, you're, you'll probably need to work with ox bile to be able to get that much fat into your diet and that's fine. Perfect. So you're just going to bring in something that your body would normally, you know, the gallbladder would normally store, um, to help you to get to that place.

[00:18:45] Dr. Katie Deming: perfect. And why don't you tell us a little bit about. GAPS and how, like, what is your background in terms of how have you come to this place of your philosophy on how to eat? Um, I would love for [00:19:00] people to know just a little bit about that if, you know, because the things that you're saying what's so interesting.

[00:19:05] Dr. Katie Deming: You know, you're speaking my language like I really believe that as humans we were designed to eat meat like we're designed as carnivores. Yes, we can eat vegetables. But actually, this is maybe a good before we go into your background. It's like. We don't need vegetables. Actually, we can survive without vegetables.

[00:19:27] Dr. Katie Deming: And so, you know, for me, as I've gotten into this space of, um, natural healing where diet is the foundation. I really feel like if you don't get the diet, the other stuff is hard to get right because people are dysregulated and the diet is really the foundation. But, um, with the. Plants. Let's talk about that first and then let's go to your background because I know that Dr.

[00:19:55] Dr. Katie Deming: Natasha talks about this as well. So can you talk a little bit about [00:20:00] plants?

[00:20:00] Monica Corrado: I love them, right? They're beautiful. They're lovely. They're beautiful, especially when they're flowers and all sorts of good things. Um, yes. Okay. Here, I'm just going to drop the bomb. No human needs to eat plants to survive, actually to thrive. Our physical body doesn't need them. so how did we come to this?

[00:20:21] Monica Corrado: So Dr. Natasha, again, Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride, GAPS diet, was working, has been working with, um, very, very, um, ill, sick. babies even that are born that are not able to digest even their mother's breast milk. I mean, amazing to see what's happening to the digestive systems of as they're born, right? In any case, so she has worked with many, many, many people and came to the conclusion that, people were healing when they were only eating meat.

[00:20:50] Monica Corrado: Like people that were, she was working with and so she developed what's called no plant GAPS. No plant GAPS. There's a whole protocol. It's sitting in the gut and [00:21:00] psychology, no gut and physiology syndrome book. It's a blue book. She wrote, uh, I believe it was published in 2020 in any case. So she didn't, she was, it was amazing to see clinically that people were getting better.

[00:21:14] Monica Corrado: They were healing from all sorts of things on a meat on. you know, on a note, what we call no plant GAPS. This is not carnivore because no plant GAPS also has healing foods like, uh, raw cultured dairy, like kefir is in there. Um, and there are way is in there. There's some other things. So it's not carnivore.

[00:21:34] Monica Corrado: It's a, it's really a GAPS diet with to make sure we have probiotic foods, healing foods in there. That's not just a bunch of meat. And of course, meat stock, which is the stock, et cetera. But what we found Is that plants are cleansers, animal foods are builders. It's, I mean, if you just kind of sit with that for a minute, plants are cleansers to the human body, animal [00:22:00] foods are builders.

[00:22:01] Monica Corrado: Okay. So this is another interesting thing. People in the, you're working with people from, with cancer and the whole cancer community is saying vegan, go vegan, go vegan. There's something behind that for a little while, because if you look at. The Standard American Diet, which is C R A P, right? The SAD diet, Standard American Diet, is really garbage.

[00:22:27] Monica Corrado: It's all, it's processed food, it's, uh, I don't even want to, we can go there, but it's certainly not nourishing traditional food that you make in your own kitchen, right? From ingredients that you can spell, right? Like, it's crazy, right? ~So, uh, so, um, anyway, so, um, uh,~ So, when people move from that with all of those, you know, toxins and the glyphosate and the plant oils and the, you know, just, ugh, I can't even, I kind of get a little bit foggy when I even think about it.

[00:22:54] Monica Corrado: When people move from the standard American diet, which is malnutrition, right? They're not getting any nourishment [00:23:00] at all, and in fact, it's highly toxic. If they go into a plant diet, like a vegan diet for a month, two months, three months with guidance, right? This is not something you would go like, Today I'm eating, you know, standard American.

[00:23:16] Monica Corrado: Tomorrow I'm eating vegetables all day. You will throw your body into like a very dysregulated state. Blood sugar issues will go crazy. I mean, there's all sorts of, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying that it makes sense if you think about people coming from standard American. Right? They're going to McDonald's.

[00:23:32] Monica Corrado: They're eating off the hot bar at Whole Foods every night. I don't even care. That's all soy, soy oil and canola oil. People don't realize that part either. Right? So they're just not eating nourishing food. If you take those folks and you put them, you invite them to a plant diet for a little while, they can have a lot of healing.

[00:23:51] Monica Corrado: Why? Because plants are healthy. Cleansers, they're cleansing the body, right? But you can't stay there forever because [00:24:00] your body, our bodies are moment by moment by moment by moment right now, right? Boop, boop, boop, right? Right now, right now, right now, right now, rebuilding itself by moment by moment by moment.

[00:24:10] Monica Corrado: So if you cleanse, if that's all you're ever doing is cleansing, adopting a vegan diet, like, Oh, I'm a vegan. You know, I'm never going to eat animal foods. You're cleansing forever. That's a perpetual cleanse. That is a cleanse and you can't build from cleansing materials. So you're actually starving the brain.

[00:24:31] Monica Corrado: You're starving the cells. You're starving the heart. You're starving the lungs. You're starving the whole body because you're not giving it building foods. So building foods are so important. Yeah, so I guess what I'm trying to say is that plants have their role, right? But they're not supposed to be the be all and end all for the human.

[00:24:52] Monica Corrado: We know that because we have eight canines. Those are called meat terrors. That's why we have them. [00:25:00] And we have one stomach. So our physiology, our physiology, one stomach with high acid, that is a, that is a meat eating body. That's what it is. Canines and one stomach, right? We're not herbivores. We don't have five stomachs or three stomachs for, you know, we don't like, we can't regurgitate the plants back up, please God.

[00:25:21] Monica Corrado: And then, you know, digest them again. So, plus plants have lots of anti nutrients, anti nutrients, right? They're built. They were, they're given, they were, you know, they grow with these things, these, these are protections, they're, they're armor, they're armored against being digested. That's why people have so many problems, not that's why, but it makes sense that people have so many problems with plants right now.

[00:25:49] Monica Corrado: Oh, I can't eat lectins, and I can't eat salicylates, and I can't eat oxalates, and I can't eat like every single little thing that we have like, we've pulled out every single piece of a [00:26:00] plant. Oh, well, I can't have that. Phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors, gluten, casein, I mean, there's, well, casein's over there, sorry.

[00:26:08] Monica Corrado: I, I crossed over to dairy, but right, so you've got all these, you've got all these anti nutrients. Plants don't want you to eat them. They don't want you to eat them. They're built to be, I'll just say the seeds. So I have this little thing. I do a little ditty sometime, right? Like, so every, every bean, every nut, every seed, every grain is a seed.

[00:26:34] Monica Corrado: If you just think every bean, every nut, every seed. Meaning like pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, whatever, every grain, every grain, oat, name it, oat, wheat, whatever, every grain, they're all seeds, they're all what the body, what the plants use to grow another plant, right? They don't want to be digested. They're armored so they're not [00:27:00] digested.

[00:27:00] Monica Corrado: So they're, they're meant to be. chewed up and pooped out so they can grow over there to another plant. Anyway, so plants have a lot of anti nutrients and they're tough on bodies that have digestive issues. I could say leaky gut for sure. Most people do. Most people have leaky gut at this point. Babies are born with leaky gut right now.

[00:27:21] Dr. Katie Deming: I believe it. And I think this is actually, you just answered a question I think is really valuable for people to hear. Here is that, yes, doing those plants for a short amount of time can be good to cleanse your system, but it is not the way that we are designed to eat. And then when you understand, particularly cancer as a metabolic condition, condition.

[00:27:44] Dr. Katie Deming: Transcribed by https: otter. ai We want to decrease inflammation in the body. We want to increase fats. We want to get the healthy proteins and we want to reduce carbohydrates. And so when someone is doing a plant based or basically not doing any of those [00:28:00] things and increasing inflammation in the body, and that's what I see.

[00:28:03] Dr. Katie Deming: So the thing that I see clinically with people who are on a plant based diet is oftentimes they're dysregulated neurologically, you know, so. They aren't getting enough fat, they're nervous system, they, they're kind of heightened and actually like this is, I, I don't, I'll just come out and say it, the other people who like doctors and staff who are in the plant based space, sometimes I think they're dysregulated because they're so crazy about, like, you have to do it this way.

[00:28:32] Dr. Katie Deming: And it's like, okay, people like we can all. coexist. And I'm fine if you want to eat plant based and that's fine. If that's, and if that's what you feel like is right, but they come at you. And that's one of the things that I see is this kind of like real, um, not calm nervous system. And then also like just tons of.

[00:28:51] Dr. Katie Deming: gas and inflammation in the body. And that, you know, so I just think that it's important. And I like that you [00:29:00] explained that, that it's better than the standard American diet in terms of cleansing, but then really what we want to be giving is the body, the building blocks that it needs. And particularly with cancer, we want to do that while reducing inflammation and not fueling with a high carbohydrate diet.

[00:29:18] Dr. Katie Deming: So, um, thank you. Thank you for explaining that in a way. And also just describing, yes, we have canines. Yes, we have one stomach. We, we're designed to eat meat. And so that's the other thing is I always, when people bring this up to me, I said, let's just go back. Let's just go back before there was whole foods.

[00:29:35] Dr. Katie Deming: And before there were grocery stores with every fruit and vegetable that you could find on the planet, all available to us at one, you know, all year round, like that's not nature. Like when in doubt, go back to like, okay, what would our ancestors have eaten in the location that we're, that we live? And that is that they would be hunting or, you know, eating [00:30:00] meat primarily and then vegetables and fruits in season.

[00:30:04] Dr. Katie Deming: That's it. And that, like, if you just go to that, that's like, Oh, it's so much simpler. Right. But the, the, the grocery store. confuses people because they're like, but wait, and I have to eat all these antioxidants. So I need to eat the rainbow every day. And it's like, well, but that's not nature. And then also, by the way, most of these vegetables and fruits are now genetically modified.

[00:30:25] Dr. Katie Deming: They are not what we were eating when they were naturally occurring. They're sweeter. They're, you know, So many things. There's just like not even the same, um, vegetables and fruits that we used to have. So anyway, we can, you and I could go on and on

[00:30:41] Monica Corrado: We could. We could. We could. We could. We could. And so the other thing is really to be clear, you know, the grains are like off the charts. Like our ancestors did not eat grains. Grains are cultivated. Right? There weren't like amber fields of grain, right? Where did they come from? We planted [00:31:00] them.

[00:31:00] Monica Corrado: These were not, you didn't like walk around and like, Oh, I'm going to have oatmeal five days a week. Well, where's the oats? Like you don't grow oats in your backyard. You see, like. And now, I, I really do, I go a little kooky, I walk into, I'll walk into any store, I don't care if it's organic or it's natural or it's co op or it's Sam's Club or God help us, people are buying groceries in Walmart, right?

[00:31:23] Monica Corrado: Like, right? Like, there are aisles after aisles after aisles, so many aisles of things that are based on grains, none of the grain, like cookie, just think of it, think of your own place Hopefully nobody's shopping in a grocery store. Okay? All right. But we do get some things there, right? In any case, but like, just think of aisle after aisle after aisle of cookies.

[00:31:48] Monica Corrado: How many, how many different types of cookies, a hundred cakes, bagels, right bread, God help us with the bread. I mean, everything, none of which, or [00:32:00] shall I say 99 percent of which, because there are a few really wonderful companies that are doing things that are sprouted. germinated, they're actually doing real sourdough, like real sourdough that's long fermented, etc.

[00:32:15] Monica Corrado: In any case, but everything else that's out there has not been cooked in a way, prepared in a way that your body can use it. So you're just eating sugar, folks. Like whether it's called pasta, bagel, right, bread, muffin, cookie, cake, I mean, even if you're like, Oh yeah, I don't eat the sweet stuff. No, but how many times a day are you having grains?

[00:32:36] Monica Corrado: Grains that go straight into sugar in your system. It's, it's a big deal. It's, it'll really blow your mind. I mean, I really, so the first challenge I'm throwing to your people, whoever listens, is see if you can get to 8 to 16, to 16 tablespoons of butter a day eventually, right? The next one is go to your grocery store, whatever it is, and count how many aisles there are of grain products [00:33:00] and then count how many of them are actually prepared in a way.

[00:33:04] Monica Corrado: that your body could use them. These are traditional cooking techniques, right? Soaking, sprouting, fermenting. It'll be a mind blower.

[00:33:13] Dr. Katie Deming: Yeah.

[00:33:13] Monica Corrado: It'll be a mind blower.

[00:33:15] Dr. Katie Deming: So tell us how, you know, your background GAPS. So you're the GAPS chef, you know, you work with, uh, Dr. Natasha and have from the beginning with really developing that, can you tell people what the GAPS diet is? And we're, the other thing that I want to say to my people, cause a lot of people who listen to my podcast here is we're not saying the GAPS diet is.

[00:33:38] Dr. Katie Deming: The, what you need to do for cancer, but a lot of the principles apply. And so I think it would be helpful for you to describe what the GAPS is. And also like your experience with Weston A. Price and, and kind of that piece of what is your background and the teachings and why, how have you come to the philosophy that you have around food?

[00:33:58] Monica Corrado: Well, the first thing I have to say is that I [00:34:00] was not with Dr. Natasha developing the GAPS diet, just to be clear. She did the whole thing and then I found it. And so maybe I'll tell that story because then you'll know how I got into GAP. So, um, and then I became the GAP chef, but anyway, um, okay. So, hmm, where should I start?

[00:34:18] Monica Corrado: My background is really started with, really started with Weston A. Price with the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook. But before that, I had my own organic and biodynamic catering company in Washington, D. C. 25 years ago when everyone thought organic meant brown rice and tofu. Like nobody really got the fact that it was, Oh, it's the way you grow things, you know, like the things that aren't in the soil and the things that you do put in the soil, whatever.

[00:34:45] Monica Corrado: In any case, that was kind of funny, but I had this organic and biodynamic catering company. I was, it was called the Basic Feast. The basic feast, right? Like we take the basic good stuff and we make it into a feast. It was a lot of fun. That was when I met Joel [00:35:00] Salatin of Polyface Farms. I met Sally Fallon.

[00:35:03] Monica Corrado: Um, I met so many incredible people who were really at the, at the forefront of the, of the traditional food movement in this country and in the U. S. Really Sally and the Weston A. Price Foundation. I mean, that's really what started it all to me. And when you look back, was the publication of the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook, which she wrote in, I believe the first cop, the first one was in 1998, I think I could be wrong off a year or two, but nourishing.

[00:35:31] Monica Corrado: And she started the Weston A. Price Foundation. And here I am with this, with this, you know, I'm trying to get the food, like the sourcing of the food. Right. Right. The cleanest. Uh, chicken, I can, the best, the best tasting chicken in America in the year 2000 was from Polly Face Farm, front cover of the Smithsonian Magazine, right?

[00:35:53] Monica Corrado: If you look back, you can find it, July 2000. There's Joel Salatin, who is, I don't know if anybody knows who he is, but he's, [00:36:00] He's the High Priest of Pasture, they call him. He's Mr. Grass Farmer. He's the one who has helped American farmers put animals back on pasture, out of feedlots, onto the grass where they are intended to be.

[00:36:16] Monica Corrado: So anyway, um, so I met all of these people and I found Nourishing Traditions and I read the book that everyone needs to read, anyone who wants to really know about nutrition. Um, uh, the fundamental, the foundations of nutrition for the human body, no matter where you are on the planet, can be found in Weston A.

[00:36:38] Monica Corrado: Price's book, which is called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. And everyone should read it. Case studies in the 30s and the 40s, uh, from peoples all around the world where we, he found Weston A. Price, who was a dentist. He found principles that went across all diets. Whether you were, you know, an [00:37:00] aborigine or you were out, you were, you know, up in, Alaska or the Yukon or, you know, like wherever, or you lived in the rainforest, it didn't really matter.

[00:37:08] Monica Corrado: You were in an island in the middle of the ocean, right? Like everyone has the same, all of their diets had the same principles. And those are the, and those people were well, like thriving well, like easy childbirth, like, like healthy children. Oh my goodness, I get goosebumps just talking about it. anyway, so he wrote a book called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.

[00:37:32] Monica Corrado: Everyone who wants to know about how the human body works with food. Should take a look at that and it will really go into why we need fats and why we need butter and why we need, you know, liver and organ meats and you know what the human body is supposed to be eating in any case. So, um, I learned the techniques and so, and I had the catering company.

[00:37:55] Monica Corrado: That's what I was doing. I was soaking grains. I was making broths and [00:38:00] stocks. I was, you know, fermenting things and, and, and then, um, I actually catered the first three Weston A. Price conferences in Washington, D. C. We started with 23 people in a church basement. Now there are 1, 800 people or more that come every year for a conference.

[00:38:19] Monica Corrado: You know, people fly in from all over the world. In any case, we've got local chapters all over the country, all over the world of These traditional, traditional cooking techniques. So, um, so that's how I, I was, uh, I had this catering company and someone said to me, Hey, Monica, they came to the conference, right?

[00:38:39] Monica Corrado: They said, Hey, Monica, um, could you teach nourishing traditions? Like, I'm like, what do you mean? Well, well, we've got this great cookbook from Sally Fallon, now Sally Fallon Morrell, nourishing traditions. Right? Uh, it's the cookbook. It's been, I think, revised at least once, maybe twice. And, um, we love the book, but no one [00:39:00] knows how to, like, cook from this.

[00:39:01] Monica Corrado: Can you teach it? So that was the beginning of my teaching career. I literally took the book, looked to see what she was doing, and went, oh yeah, I could teach this. Developed cooking classes. I call them cooking for Wellbeing classes. and I started teaching on a six foot table in a co-op. And what did I teach?

[00:39:19] Monica Corrado: Bone broth. Why did I teach bone broth? Because meat stock was not, did not exist yet. In my lexicon, like I hadn't met Dr. Atasha yet. I didn't know GAPS wasn't even written yet. This was all pre GAPS, right? So anyway, that was the beginning of my teaching. And then I just, people would just say, can you come and teach fermentation?

[00:39:37] Monica Corrado: Can you? Sure. Of course. Can you come and teach soaking and sprouting? Sure. Of course. You know? And how can you teach culturing dairy and how to make yogurt? Sure. Of course. And it just kind of blew. Like no one was doing it. This is 25 years ago. No one was teaching this stuff. So I was teaching it and I was having a blast and, uh, and then I was teaching a class and one of the students in my class said, Monica, will you [00:40:00] teach, um, can you teach GAPS?

[00:40:03] Monica Corrado: And I went, uh, tell me, well, you know, gut and psychology syndrome, Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride. And I was like, sure, why not? If I could teach nourishing traditions, I could teach GAPS because GAPS is based on the same cooking techniques that. These are traditional cooking techniques that are used all around the world for generations to make food digestible, to enhance the nutrient, ~uh, nutrient, um, uh,~ availability, you know, all sorts of things like that.

[00:40:32] Monica Corrado: So, yeah, how did I get to GAPS? They asked me to teach it. I said, sure. But right before then, Sally Fallon had. Invited Dr. Natasha front to come from the UK because that's where she lives to speak at a wise traditions conference I went specifically to hear her. I don't know why you know You get those things where you're like, I got to go do this You like, you know, right like like I saw she was coming.

[00:40:57] Monica Corrado: I didn't this was before I knew [00:41:00] about the book, but I saw she was coming, she was teaching about children's health. I had been really looking, as a nutritionist, I'd been looking at why are our children so sick at the time, like, and how can we fix it with food? That was my thing. That was like, how are we going to do this?

[00:41:15] Monica Corrado: Right? So I saw Dr. Natasha was going to talk about children's health. I thought, I got to go. I don't know. I got to drive three hours there and three hours back and I'm going to sit for a three hour lecture. Right? That's what I did. And I sat in the back of the room, she taught, she taught GAPS, which is gut and psychology syndrome. 300 other people there or more, and I just wept because I knew it was the answer to what I was looking for. I was like, why are our children so sick and what can we do about it with food? That was my question. She gave me the answer. I was like, Oh my God, everyone else had done gluten free, casein free.

[00:41:52] Monica Corrado: Just the removal of something that is irritating you is not going to heal you like you [00:42:00] can go gluten free, casein free, all you want, but you're not going to hear your gut. Right. So, so that was in my mind. Then I was looking at like specific carbohydrate diet. Then I was looking at body ecology diet. They were all missing something.

[00:42:14] Monica Corrado: What were they missing? Meat stock, none of them had meat stock, none of them had collagen, none of them had the ability, none of them provided the building blocks by which the body could heal, which is meat stock. They didn't. Nor did they have, except for body ecology, uh, nor did they have ferments. Like where are the ferments in the SCD?

[00:42:36] Monica Corrado: I mean. They're not there. There are no ferments. There are no, there is no sauerkraut. There is no kimchi. There is no beet kvass. There is, right? So they were missing so many things that GAPS provide. I was like, this is it. She's put it all, you know, so wow. So I sat in the back of the room, I wept the entire time.

[00:42:55] Monica Corrado: I thought this is life changing. It changed my life. That was it. Like one of those moments where your whole life [00:43:00] changes, where I'm like, I've got to learn this and I've got to teach this because this is the answer to so many of the health problems. And that's what I did. And then I connected with Dr.

[00:43:09] Monica Corrado: Natasha. I said, listen people are making bone broth and they're having seizures. Some of them are having seizures, right? But the children with these, anyone who has neurological symptoms who is prone to that, they were having them triggered, right? They're, they're, they're stimming more. They're, all the neurological dysregulation would just be heightened.

[00:43:26] Monica Corrado: And I'd get these phone calls from moms like, hey, I'm doing GAPS. and my child is having seizures and I'm like, wait a minute, tell me what you're doing. Well, I'm giving them the stock. I'm like, okay, tell me about that. This is when I knew it was, this is when I knew two things happened. One, that there was a problem and I had to get in there and start talking about meat stock.

[00:43:47] Monica Corrado: Two things, things happened. People, moms were calling me and because they knew that I taught this stuff, whatever, they'd be like, my child is having seizures on GAPS. I'm like, what are you doing? I'm giving them a lot of stock. Great. Tell me how you make [00:44:00] the stock. They were giving them bone broth. They were giving them long cooked high glutamic acid bone broth because when they read the yellow book, Their eyes glazed over the word meat before stock.

[00:44:14] Monica Corrado: They saw, oh, I know how to make stock. Right, long cooked, and in the culinary world, stock is a long cooked, made from bones thing. In the culinary world. But this is like the healing world. So, I was the one who started calling it bone broth. versus meat stock, right? In any case. So two things happened. One, people were having some neurological system dysregulation by having all of that, all of this, trying to have a lot of stock, have more stock.

[00:44:45] Monica Corrado: They were making bone broth. That's the first thing. The second thing I heard was I can't get enough bones, like And I'm like, if meat stock is made out of a chicken, why can't you get the bones, right? Because everybody was making bone broth. Those were the two [00:45:00] clues. So I contacted Dr. Natasha. I said, listen, in the U.

[00:45:03] Monica Corrado: S. people are making bone broth. They don't understand meat stock. Can I write a book? Can I write the book? She said, yeah, of course. Write it. Yes. So that was the beginning of my book, which is really six books in one now. The first, I published them one at a time to try as. to try and get them out because I was like, people have got to get this.

[00:45:23] Monica Corrado: They don't have time to wait for me for a year to get the whole thing written. So we've published meat stock. And then I talk about versus bone broth. That was part one. That was 2015. Oh my God. 10 years ago in my life. Then we published culturing dairy. Then we published, or I published, Lactofermentation.

[00:45:39] Monica Corrado: Then I published nuts, seeds, beans, grains. Then we put it all together. So I have one book right now that has all of it. So,

[00:45:45] Dr. Katie Deming: us, tell us the name of your book. We're going to link to it, but.

[00:45:48] Monica Corrado: sure, sure. The book is called The Complete Cooking Techniques for the GAPS Diet.

[00:45:53] Dr. Katie Deming: And tell us, so you, second edition, so tell us the GAPS diet [00:46:00] is to help seal the gut and to also help with nervous system regulation as well. And, um, I don't want to go too far into that in terms of the GAPS, but the lot of the principles that you have there and the foods, the things that you teach in your book, those are all things that are healthy.

[00:46:23] Dr. Katie Deming: nourishing, you know, the way that we are designed to eat real foods. So what I want people to take away from this is the things that Monica is talking about today are absolutely applicable for healing cancer. And that, Monica, I'm going to have to bring you back because I know that we're going to run out of time here, but You know, Monica and I are working together on refeeding after fasting because one of the issues that I've come up with is, or come up against, I guess, was that I realized that water fasting is very powerful [00:47:00] for healing cancer.

[00:47:01] Dr. Katie Deming: And not short water fasting, but going out to like 30 Up to 40 days. So 30 days, you can actually get cancer to eradicate itself from the body and the body does it itself, but the risky part of fasting is refeeding and all of the big centers are all run by doctors who are based in a plant based, you know, low fat.

[00:47:28] Dr. Katie Deming: No oils diet. Like this is what they teach people how to refeed on. And so the refeeding is a lot of fruit juices. And I'm like, so fruit juices and then legumes, you know, lots of beans and then rice and a lot of

[00:47:46] Monica Corrado: of which is prepared correctly, by the way. None of which.

[00:47:49] Dr. Katie Deming: Yes, yes. So, but, but, so I was started sending, I was, you know, so busy with seeing clients that I didn't have time to do the fasting and so I was [00:48:00] sending people to these places and then I was looking at what they were being refed with and I was like, Oh my goodness, we've just reset the microbiome and now you're just flooding it with fruits and all of the wrong foods to eat.

[00:48:14] Dr. Katie Deming: Ooh. That basically is un, I don't like, I don't want to say any disrespect for these places, but for cancer specifically, to refade in this way, you're undoing a lot of the things that are beneficial of doing the fast. And this is actually how I reluctantly have been like pulled into water fasting because I didn't want to do it.

[00:48:37] Dr. Katie Deming: I was like, I don't know how to do this. This is not something that I was trained in. And, but anyway. So I found you and what's been beautiful about our collaboration is looking at, okay, now that we take someone who we've really created a clean slate in terms of their gut microbiome, we've, you know, done the work [00:49:00] with the cancer, they've gotten autophagy, they've detox their body by dumping all the fat through ketosis.

[00:49:06] Dr. Katie Deming: Now, how do we give them the foundation to truly be well? And so it's been such a beautiful, and this has been a world when we've been doing this, like, you know, as we're, as we're fasting and bringing people back and then learning, but it's been like this most beautiful experiment to, you know, come up with, and now we have a refeeding plan that is based in the principles that you are describing, but also.

[00:49:34] Dr. Katie Deming: Um, you know, is specifically for people who have cancer and who are healing cancer. And it's been such a privilege for me to work with someone like you, who has such expertise and such deep knowledge. And then also, you know, Look at the people that you've worked with over your career. These are really people who have brought real food, biodynamic farming, [00:50:00] raw milk, all of those things we have now today because of the people that you have worked with.

[00:50:06] Dr. Katie Deming: And so anyway, I'm really excited because You know, we've done now the refeeding. We've got that up and running. We've got people fasting and, and refeeding with it. And that is all going really well. But then you and I just had a conversation yesterday. Our next step is to say, okay, really, how do we help the people once they're through their refeeding phase of really looking at like, what does it look like to truly nourish yourself when you're healing cancer, and then also for people who aren't going to fast with me, because there are people who.

[00:50:36] Dr. Katie Deming: Fasting is not, you know, what they're going to do. And so we're in the process of building that out and, you know, creating something that is for those people who understand we're designed to eat meat, who understand that, um, cancer is a metabolic condition and want to be eating in that way. So. I'm just so, I just want to say I'm so grateful to you for your [00:51:00] expertise, for your deep passion and commitment to doing this work of teaching people about real foods and the importance of them in healing.

[00:51:09] Monica Corrado: Thank you. I, I love it. It's really my, I, I use the word Dharma. It's really my path. It's really what I'm here to do

[00:51:17] Dr. Katie Deming: Oh, a hundred percent. It's your Dharma for sure.

[00:51:20] Monica Corrado: to understand that, you know, we have this beautiful divine architecture and when we give it what it needs, you know, the foods that it needs. Yeah. It can be. Well, and you know, I also talk about things like when you buy food from farms and farmers that care about the earth, you know, the, that care about their animals, like these are all important.

[00:51:41] Monica Corrado: Every link is important. Right. And then bringing yourself. To the kitchen in a state of love, in a state of gratitude, in a state of appreciation, in a state of real, you know, uh, just really being able to appreciate the food that you can, you know, work [00:52:00] with and cook with. It's going to. Nourish your body and and the other piece that kind of bring it back full circle that you told we've been talking so much about nervous system Dysregulation and and all of that is you know, it's really important to take a moment and just to take a moment and get into autonomic nervous system balance Right, get into a place.

[00:52:23] Monica Corrado: This is why we take a moment to bless our food or to at least take three breaths Like this isn't like I'm shoving like I'm driving. So I'm going to eat a burger in the car when I'm right No, no, it's really important to come like after you've made this beautiful food to Take a moment to center before you partake of the food, whether you want to bless it or whether you want to just say thankfuls, thankful to the animals, thankful to the farmers, thankful to the earth, thankful to the sun, thankful to the person who prepared it, thankful, right?

[00:52:57] Monica Corrado: All those things take three [00:53:00] breaths, like come to the table, right? Not in fight or flight or freeze. Come to the table ready to receive the gift, the blessing of this food that can really bring you, bring you back, bring you to well being. It is the foundation. The food is the foundation for sure. Like you said a little bit of that before, which is, I have seen so many times people throw all sorts of other modalities at illness or at whatever dis ease the body is in, right?

[00:53:35] Monica Corrado: They're spending hundreds or thousands or whatever they're spending your time and energy and money on this modality, that modality, this modality, right? All these interventions, right? All these things, but the food isn't right. None of it holds. None of it holds. It can't,

[00:53:50] Dr. Katie Deming: well,

[00:53:50] Dr. Katie Deming: and especially with emotional healing that is tied to illness, like that's one thing that, you know, you and I, [00:54:00] where we met was in Tom Cowan's clinic and we're at the weekly staff meetings where we discuss cases and. Always, always when there's some emotional issue that is contributing, like, that appears to be related to the physical condition or experience that people are having, I'm always, and you're like, yes, yes, yes.

[00:54:21] Dr. Katie Deming: The food. I'm like the food. You have to do the food first, because if you don't get the food right, they really are not in a. space to then, um, be open to the emotional healing and really regulated so that if they start that work, they're not made worse because you can make people worse by doing emotional healing.

[00:54:44] Dr. Katie Deming: If someone is not in. a state of nervous system regulation. And so you and I are always like, you know, I, I don't care what needs to happen emotionally or like what the conflict is. You need to get that foundation of the food and always the fat is one [00:55:00] of the things that's so foundational.

[00:55:01] Monica Corrado: and really no one gets, I mean, people just don't get it real really. That's why I use shock value of eat a stick of butter a day, . That's shock value. People go, what are you talking about? I'm having an avocado. No, no, no. A stick of butter a day. At least, or more. That's what you need. And then you can start seeing, Oh, like, I do it because it's like, it comes almost from the top down.

[00:55:26] Monica Corrado: You're like, Oh, okay. I can be here now. I'm, I'm solid. I'm grounded. Fats are grounding foods. So, so is meat, by the way, like grounding. We live in a world that's so like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, out of your head, out of your body, out of your, people like ground. We need to ground into our bodies so we can be here to do the work we need to do, whatever that is. And fats play a big, big part in that.

[00:55:51] Dr. Katie Deming: Well, thank you so much for being us for sure. You're coming back. So for sure you're coming here and also you're now like coming all, you know, into my space with my [00:56:00] people, which I'm super excited about, but, um, tell people where they can find you.

[00:56:04] Monica Corrado: Simply being well. com. That is my website. That's the easiest thing. There's a contact form there. They can sign up for my once a month newsletter. I'm also, um, yeah, I have a, I have a Facebook group called ask the gap chef if people are interested in GAPS. but I work with people. So here's what I'm finding.

[00:56:24] Monica Corrado: Just, just again, close it, like tie it up with a bow. The traditional cooking techniques. are what people need to learn, whether you want to call it GAPS or not. It's really about get the garbage out, get the healing foods in, right? And switch the microbiome with probiotic foods. That's really what we're doing.

[00:56:46] Monica Corrado: And you, you know, it doesn't need to be called anything, but these, these are the things people need. People are malnourished and toxic, right? They're malnourished, they're toxic and their microbiome is a mess. [00:57:00] because of this malnourishment, right? So yeah, it's the, it's the cooking technique. So everyone needs them.

[00:57:07] Monica Corrado: And you know, as I said, if you go, if, if you were to talk to your grandmother, great grandmother, these, this is what we used to do. This is not rocket science. We're just making everything new again.

[00:57:17] Dr. Katie Deming: Thank you so much, Monica,

[00:57:19] Monica Corrado: Thank you.

[00:57:19] Dr. Katie Deming: sharing your wisdom.

[00:57:20] Monica Corrado: Thank you so much. Total pleasure.
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