Katie Deming [00:00:00]:
Do you ever wonder why the sun feels so good on your skin even though we're constantly told to avoid it? Bryant Myers returns to the podcast. He's a former molecular biologist who spent years in cancer research before discovering the profound connection between light and cellular health. With a book on red light therapy in the works and years of practical experience, he breaks down the science of how red light can power up your cell's energy production and boost healing. You'll learn exactly how red light therapy works, why it's becoming a go to treatment for everything from skin health to athletic performance, and most importantly, how to use it safely and effectively for optimal results. Stay until the end to get Brian's expert guidance on choosing the right red light therapy device. Let's dive in.Katie Deming [00:00:54]:
You're listening to the Born to Heal podcast, and I'm your host, doctor Katie Deming. After 2 decades of practicing as an oncologist and caring for thousands of patients, I've seen firsthand how our health care system places obstacles in your path to true healing. My guests and I will bridge the worlds of Western medicine and alternative healing to help you achieve optimal health. Expect to uncover new insights, share a few laughs, and maybe even shed some tears along the way. But most of all, we'll learn how to heal from within together. So let's dive into today's episode.Katie Deming [00:01:29]:
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Born to Heal podcast. I am joined today again by Bryant Myers, who's previously been on the show to talk about PEMF. But today, we're gonna talk about red light therapy. Brian, thank you for joining us.

Bryant Meyers [00:01:45]:
Oh, my pleasure. It's along with PMF, it's my main thing I'm interested in. So, I mean, I got a book written on red light therapy, but it's not published yet, but it's hopefully within a year.

Katie Deming [00:01:55]:
I love it. Well and I've also previewed your book, and it's excellent. So I'm excited for that to come out for everyone. But in the meantime, you're gonna share your wisdom with us today about red light.

Bryant Meyers [00:02:06]:
Yes. Absolutely.

Katie Deming [00:02:07]:
So I would love to start by can you describe what red light therapy is and what it's used for?

Bryant Meyers [00:02:15]:
Yeah. I mean, it's actually referred to in research literature as photobiomodulation as the new word. Right? In fact, some of the top researchers kind of frown upon the phrase red light therapy. But but I I like it because it's so descriptive. And photobiomodulation for most people is like, what the heck is that? Right? So I like to just because it's it's very straightforward. It's red light therapy. So we're using red, and actually, it's red and near infrared light. So it's more accurate.

Bryant Meyers [00:02:39]:
A lot of times in my in my book, I would say red and near infrared or just sometimes red. But when I say red light therapy, I I imply that it includes the near infrared as well because those are what activate cytochrome c oxidase to help produce ATP. Right? That's very well known mechanism. So red light therapy is a lot more natural than you might think. You know, the sun, when you're out in the sunshine, not only you're getting vitamin d, I think it's upwards to 40 let's see. 40 to 50% of the spectrum of the sun is red and near infrared. So we're getting that. If we're outdoors in the sun, we are getting therapeutic amounts of red light therapy, you could say.

Bryant Meyers [00:03:14]:
But, you know, there's obviously some caveats. Obviously, if you overdo it, you get sunburned, and people aren't spending enough time outside, you know, where people are just spending 93% of their time indoors, if you include car travel. So we're literally hardly ever getting outdoors anymore as much as we did our ancestors. Right? We do get red and near and red from the sun, but because we're not getting enough outdoor exposure and because the problem of obviously getting sunburn and skin cancer if you could overdo the sun, you know, red light therapy is a big solution to a lot of gosh. There's the benefits are like a to z. If we went through all the benefits of red light, we would be here all night. But essentially, some of the main reasons it's being used is in the antiaging community. It it it stimulates collagen, so actually, it helps with wrinkles.

Bryant Meyers [00:04:03]:
So people want their wrinkles to go away and they want natural non invasive ways to do it that are not have side effects, right? And then it's well, it actually works really well for weight loss. A lot of clinics have red light machines and a whole weight loss cellulite protocol, and we can go through that if you like. I know we wanna focus on cancer, but but these are kinda what the clinics are getting red light for. Right? Athletic performance. It actually stimulates mitochondrial function and increases muscle growth. It stimulates all kinds of great resiliency antioxidant factors in the cells, so it helps with your performance and recovery. And then you have things like alopecia, like balding. Right? I mean, you see these little red light caps all over the place and and you say, well, that's just a gimmick.

Bryant Meyers [00:04:47]:
It can't help with balding. Actually, it does if you get a therapeutic level. It's also good for acne. Very good research on acne and just overall wellness. So those those are kind of like a lot of the clinics are using it for that, but but red light therapy is so much more fundamental than just all these cosmetic and performance. It's actually working to kind of enhance mitochondrial function, which as we've talked about in our past show, we know as kind of a root cause or mitochondrial dysfunction as a root cause of cancer and other diabetes, heart disease. Many lifestyle diseases can be linked to mitochondrial dysfunction, which then leads to inflammation and all these things that we everybody talks about, the whole glycolysis with the mitochondrial not performing it. So it just that cascades into all kinds of life style diseases, including cancer.

Bryant Meyers [00:05:36]:
Right?

Katie Deming [00:05:36]:
Yeah. And let's just because some people may be tuned in for the first time for this episode and they're interested in red light, can you give just a brief description of that about what's happening with mitochondria in relation to cancer and how Yeah. This No. Disconnects? Yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:05:52]:
Most people just let's just kinda just set this up. Most people that do red light are usually doing with panels. It's kind of the popular way now. But I always encourage people to do full body red light there because everything's interconnected. And again, if whether you have cancer or whatever lifestyle disease, you kinda wanna work on your whole body. So I encourage people to get a full body red light exposure with either 4 or 6 panels, or if you can afford a red light bed like I have one, that's even better. So what red light is doing, the red and the near infrared and let's just start with the penetration, how nature kind of is very intelligent as we know. Mother nature is super intelligent.

Bryant Meyers [00:06:25]:
So if you put a flashlight up to your hand, what color comes out the other side? Right. And there's a reason for that because the deepest penetrating wavelengths of light are red and near infrared And and again, I've in my book, I have some, like, diagrams so you can see this. But it turns out like blue, green, yellow, other wavelengths hardly go 1 millimeter before they're absorbed. I mean, through the eyes if you're looking at, you know, we hear about avoiding blue light at nighttime, but that's kinda going through the eyes. But on the skin, blue light is not gonna go much more than a millimeter. And then if you get to far infrared, because the body is mostly water, the water is right there. When you go when light goes in the body, the far infrared the water just starts to absorb it right at the top there. So believe it or not, far infrared saunas, the wavelengths don't go as deep as red and near infrared.

Bryant Meyers [00:07:09]:
It's important to mention this. That's a common confusion. People say, well, I have a sauna or some people have a sauna or they they think that red light takes the place of a sauna, but they're actually 2 different, totally different. One is non thermal use of light. It's important to emphasize that red and near infrared is non thermal in the sense that it's it's like photosynthesis. We're trying to to harness light to create energy like plants do. In fact, it's really just like plants do. Only we're hybrid engines where plants can be totally solar powered.

Bryant Meyers [00:07:39]:
We do need a little bit of fuel along with but we can harness energy from light. But far infrared, the wavelengths are too long to do that. It's called photochemistry where you're kicking electrons to higher orbitals in excited states that then drive an energy process in the mitochondria. Right? So this is all important because this sets the stage for how does red light really work in the body, and they've actually know this very well. There's so many studies on this. It's with cytochromacy oxidase. Not to get too technical on molecular biology, but in your mitochondria, there's many. There's courses Krebs cycle, then you have once the n NADH and FADH 2 get synthesized from Krebs, they're like little molecular battery packs.

Bryant Meyers [00:08:19]:
Right? Then those 2 high energetic molecules are then kind of fed into the electron transport chain where those high energy electrons are passed down through five levels, through these five complexes. The 4th complex and this is very important. This is where ATP is literally getting created. I mean, the 4th complex is cytochrome c. Okay. This is critical. Why? This is where oxygen actually docks. So we know oxygen is needed for or most of us know that we need oxygen for aerobic respiration, which we know we talked about last time creates 38 molecules of ATP.

Bryant Meyers [00:08:53]:
So it gives you a good that's where good mitochondrial function comes from is aerobic respiration. But if oxygen doesn't dock on cytochrome c, then guess what? It short circuits the entire electron transport chain. And what happens? The body reverts to glycolysis lactic acid fermentation. So it is critical not only to have enough oxygen available, but that it it has to dock on-site of chrome c. We talk about doctor Otto Warburg sometime, but you know what doctor Otto Warburg discovered in 1926? He was the one that discovered cytochrome c oxidase. So it turns out that this discovery that he found that people that that this this is the enzyme, like it's an enzyme, it's critical for, you know, oxygen docking and that it's but it's also linked to cancer when the body is not expressing cytochrome c properly, if there's damage to this to the electron transport chain or there's a direct link between cytochrome c oxidase and either health or sickness or cancer. What red light does actually, I in my book, I talk about 5 or 4 or 5 different things it does to help this whole process. And again, when you really get this, when this is what's cytochrome c is oh, let me say this.

Bryant Meyers [00:10:01]:
It's like a little mini solar panel. It's a porphyrin molecule. Okay? And without getting into the technicalities of porphyrins, guess what? Chlorophyll is also a porphyrin. It's literally a mini solar panel. In fact, this is not a metaphor. They make solar panels out of porphyrins, meaning your cytochrome c oxidase can be used by engineers to make a solar panel that's like a functioning solar panel to create energy to your house. So we literally have little solar panels in our mitochondria where oxygen is docking and see the the the light comes in. I don't know if we wanna get into how solar panels work, but but essentially light is coming in and electrons get excited to a higher energy state, and that excited electron is what drives the current flow that gives your house power.

Bryant Meyers [00:10:47]:
So sunlight is converted into electrical energy in your house. It's the same thing going on in the body, but now we're not dry semiconductors like solar panels are. We're wet. We have but, again, easy water and some of the energetics of water do create a semiconductor like effect within the mitochondria. So like a solar panel, we are kicking electrons up by so the red light therapy is providing the energy. Right? Because and why is it important to use red and near infrared like I just explained? It's the deepest penetrating wavelength. So nature in its in her infinite wisdom has learned to harness the deepest penetrating wavelength of light to create energy. I mean, how smart is that.

Bryant Meyers [00:11:24]:
Right? Now cytochrome c could have been tuned to light blue, but that wouldn't have been very wise because it's not getting in the body. So nature is harnessing the deepest penetrating light very wisely so that way the whole body can get energized from light, not just the skin. So it's kind of interesting to see these fine tuning effect with life and how we're so deeply coupled to the Earth's energies. Like, the Schumann resonance is our brain is totally coupled to the Schumann and the geomagnetic frequencies of the Earth. Right? Again, by no accident because, again, we've evolved on this planet. So cytochrome c oxidase is like a little solar panel that helps oxygen to dock, and oxygen is sort of what's being as a the final electron acceptor. What red light does is it kicks that electron to an an excited state, and then from there, this whole process of the electron transport chain is kicking is basically pumping out hydrogen, right, across the the mitochondrial membrane. And this creates a little battery.

Bryant Meyers [00:12:18]:
So it's this whole process of electrons flowing through the electron transport chain, pumping out protons, and then the final complex is ATPase, and that's what churns out ATP. So red light actually helps with that too, and we can get into that a little bit later. But why I wanna focus so much on cytochrome c is that this has been linked with cytochrome c dysfunction and cancer are connected. So what red light therapy does besides just directly energizing and creating ATP, which, of course, as we know, helps with mitochondrial function. But red light's been shown to increase the number of cytochrome c oxidase. So it's like it helps to rebuild those antenna. Right? So it's almost like red light's helping the body to put up more solar panels in your mitochondria or create more healthy mitochondria that have cytochrome c working properly. And even better, it's called mitochondrial biogenesis.

Bryant Meyers [00:13:07]:
Actually, red light therapy helps to increase the number of mitochondria in the cells. So now not only do you got more solar panels, but you got more power plants. Right? Again, if mitochondrial functioning or dysfunction is our leading cause of cancer, the best thing you can do is create more healthy mitochondria to reverse cancer. I mean, say in some ways, it's almost that simple. I mean, if you improve your the functioning of your existing mitochondria or you can increase new and create new healthy mitochondria, both of those are gonna power up the metabolism of your cell, and that's gonna start to reverse cancer. So it's pretty exciting. And then there's other things too with cytochrome c can kinda it's like a landing strip for oxygen. Right? But now nitric oxide, the bad nitric oxide from, you know, the the INOS, the inducible nitric oxide, that can bind the cytochrome c, and it kind of it's sort of like clogging up a runway, like the plane has nowhere to land.

Bryant Meyers [00:14:00]:
So oxygen comes in, but nitric oxide is sitting there. Carbon monoxide can do this too. In fact, carbon monoxide not only can bind the hemoglobin to sort of but it can also bind to cytochrome c. Because guess what? Hemoglobin also is a porphyrin. The hemoglobin has theoretically, it would have the ability to absorb light like a solar panel too, but I haven't read the mechanisms aren't as well mapped out as the mitochondria. One of the big mechanisms of red light is called photo disassociation of nitric oxide. So the red light comes in and it kicks out nitric oxide, and it clears the landing strip so so oxygen can dock. And again, the healthier mitochondrial health and function depends on oxygen docking.

Bryant Meyers [00:14:39]:
That's the difference between aerobic and anaerobic respiration or glycolysis and the proper using oxygen. Like I said, 38 molecules or, like, 38 miles per gallon versus 2 or 4 miles per gallon. It is a it's a huge energy difference if you're not able to use oxygen to create energy in the mitochondria.

Katie Deming [00:14:55]:
And, yeah, I'm just gonna stop you for one second just to make sure that everyone is tracking. So if cancer is a metabolic condition as defined by Otto Warburg, which is this idea of cancer is the the hallmark of cancer is seeing the shift of using oxidative phosphorylation require which requires mitochondria, healthy and functional enough mitochondria, the switch. So the hallmark of cancer is the switch from using oxidative phosphorylation for generation of energy, which is our most efficient form of energy as you production of energy as you described to glycolysis or fermentation, the problem as Otto Warburg outlined is this problem of either dysfunctional mitochondria or deficient mitochondria. And what you're describing here is this cytochrome c oxidase is kind of the piece that explains how the mitochondria are not working because, basically, the cytochrome c oxidase is required for oxygen to dock on the mitochondria. And so red light helps with that docking, so that's one thing. So it helps make our mitochondria more functional. Right? So dealing with that dysfunctional problem. The other thing that it does is it kicks out nitric oxide, which could come in and take the place of oxygen, which we don't wanna happen.

Katie Deming [00:16:19]:
So those two things are helping with the function of the mitochondria. And then the third thing that it does is the mitochondrial biogenesis of increasing the production of the mitochondria. So this is why red light can be so valuable in cancer is because if cancer is related to the dysfunctional and deficient mitochondria, this is a way that not only do we attack one of those things like the, you know, number of mitochondria, but it's also helping us make them more functional. So I just wanted to summarize that quickly because we got into a lot of, you know, complex words and and names, and I just want people to make sure, like, okay. We're tracking with this. This is other we've talked about this many times on this podcast, but I just wanna make sure we keep it simple so that people, you know, track. And I love actually all the details that you're giving.

Bryant Meyers [00:17:08]:
Yeah. Because the reason I can give so many details is red light, even probably better than PMF, is more the the research is so very well mapped out. I mean, it's not I mean, there's still maybe some debates unlike the photo dissociation, mechanism. That was that's the one that's still talked about in all the research literature. And in fact, almost every paper on photobiomodulation are on, they always lead in with that. Right? It's sort of like always talked about. I'm just reading here from this Otto Warburg that he found by this is important to to to mention, that he found that a healthy cell could be turned into a cancer cell just by inhibiting cytochrome c oxidase. And, of course, that's what we just said.

Bryant Meyers [00:17:44]:
Nitric oxide, it can be one inhibitor, but there can be other toxic environmental things that also combine the CCO. That's probably just or CCO means cytochrome c oxidase. So that's kinda hones in on the whole the switch like you call it, right, on how the cytochrome c really is kinda that switch. Or you could say oxygen docking there or not is the switch. And again, you could have damage to the see, this is the problem. If oxygen doesn't dock there, this is where inflammation comes from by the way. You know ROS, reactive oxygen species, is the fundamental, like, cause of inflammation and free radical damage. That's like the root re free radical.

Bryant Meyers [00:18:19]:
The the superoxide, it's o three minus. It's like a very reactive oxygen species. Right? That's why it's ROS. And so if oxygen doesn't dock on cytochrome, if it's let's say it's plugged up or nitric oxide is there, guess what happens? Where does that oxygen go? It's a free radical. The oxygen starts to attack the other complexes in the mitochondria and it starts to rot. You know, why do apples turn brown and why does the old fashioned cars rust? It's oxidation. It's oxygen. Oxygen is very oxidizing.

Bryant Meyers [00:18:47]:
It's it's very powerful free radical. So because of that, if oxygen can't dock there, then it just starts to run amok in the mitochondria and creating all kinds of damage.

Katie Deming [00:18:57]:
Yeah. Well, this is a question that I wanna ask you because when I talked to Thomas Seyfried Yeah. He seemed to think and this makes sense to me, but I just wanna ask you your opinion on this. But he said that the DNA damage that in Western medicine we've been told is the cause of uncontrolled cell growth rather than that being the cause, he thinks that it's really because when you have this problem where the oxygen doesn't dock and you start creating reactive oxygen species and you create inflammation, you then actually cause DNA damage with those reactive oxygen species and that the DNA damage is really the effect rather than the cause of cancer.

Bryant Meyers [00:19:43]:
That makes sense.

Katie Deming [00:19:44]:
Do you agree?

Bryant Meyers [00:19:45]:
Yeah. I don't know it as well. Maybe that aspect is because I know he's done all those studies with putting a healthy nucleus into a cancer cell and vice versa and seeing

Katie Deming [00:19:53]:
Yeah. But

Bryant Meyers [00:19:53]:
it really is a cytoplasm problem more than a nucleus problem, cancer.

Katie Deming [00:19:57]:
Right? It makes sense.

Bryant Meyers [00:19:58]:
It makes perfect sense. And and interesting from the easy water perspective, guess what ROS does is that it makes it makes water, like, stickier and muddier. It kinda it, like, gums up. So one of the things they found was with ROS, like, say, across these pores, like, say, ATPase, you know, is is where it's like of this big turbine. That's what that's actually what's where ATP is getting converted from ADP. Right? So this is where the energy is created, but it comes from all those protons that are it's like a proton gradient. Right? So it's like a little again, like a miniature battery. The mitochondria gets this so the whole electron transport chain is pumping out protons, creates an electrochemical gradient, like a just like a battery.

Bryant Meyers [00:20:36]:
So you got a a voltage potential, and that voltage dry kinda drives the the protons not come come in, and it spins that turbine on ATPAs. But if the water is if the ROS is is mucking up the water there, then it, like, it slows that down, and they found that red light speeds up the turbine and makes the water wetter. So ROS has that other unpleasant effect of messing up the healthy water in the body because

Katie Deming [00:21:03]:
Can I just make sure I understand this correctly? So if the red light increases that turbine, does it help kinda clear that muddy, stickier water?

Bryant Meyers [00:21:12]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. There's a study there's actually a study on ATPs that now this is where you want the near infrared. Okay? That seems that the near infrared interacts with water kind of in an easy water like fashion that doctor Gerald Pollack talks about. Right? It doesn't seem that the red is active. Well, it does create easy water, but not maybe as much as the more near infrared.

Bryant Meyers [00:21:32]:
I think Gerald Paulk says the peak is, like, 31 100 nanometers. But the problem with 31 100 nanometers for easy water is it doesn't penetrate very far because of so the beauty of using, like, 810 or 1064 or, like, 980, those those near infrared wavelengths penetrate deeper, but really help to create the easy water, which is you get that nice separation with negative and positive. But you also get maybe the gel like state of water near the hydrophilic surface, but you do get that lower viscosity water in the middle with the protons flowing. Right? So sometimes with Gerald Paulk, you gotta remember when he did those studies with the vest with the vessels. Right? He found greater flow going through. Actually, he could get flow going through without any energy pump, without any pump, just as light. Yeah. So think of it like that.

Bryant Meyers [00:22:16]:
So just by shining light on a little vessel, he would use some hydrophilic protein. He it wasn't necessarily an actual blood vessel, but it was Napion. Napion. Yeah. Yeah. Napion. Yeah. He'd use Napion and he's just shining like so red light will do this too.

Bryant Meyers [00:22:29]:
So just shining light on that will increase flow. So now you can see how red light helps with body wide circulation too. So it increases nitric oxide, which is known to dilate the blood vessels and help with blood flow. But I think even more so, it's creating easy water to help with this flow like doctor Gerald Pollock has found within vessels. Because not only him, but it goes back to Gregory Ling where they did the math and that there's just not enough pump force in the heart to to pump all the blood through the body. It just does there's just no way. So there's gotta be something else that's pumping the blood through your whole body, and that's this whole process that doctor Gerald Pollack, I think, that makes the most sense to me. Because, you know, cancer another problem with cancer and this goes for the lymph too, lymph flow and blood flow.

Bryant Meyers [00:23:10]:
Because people with cancer have very stagnant lymph. So, again, reactive oxygen species think of it stickiness. So everything is, like, stuck in the mud, then you get the stagnant lymph and blood that's not flowing, the clumpy blood, stagnant lymph, and this just exacerbates everything because now the oxygen can't get to the mitochondria in the first place. Forget about docking there. If you got poor circulation, it can't get there in the first place because the capillaries are so small that the red blood blood blood cells have to fold in half just to get in through there. Right? So if you got the rouleaux effect going on, where you get all the red blood cells stacking like coins, it just hits into the capillary. It just can't get in.

Katie Deming [00:23:49]:
Yeah. And explain that for people because on my podcast, we haven't talked about the rouleaux effect.

Bryant Meyers [00:23:53]:
Yeah. Right. Exactly. So the basically, red blood cells have a have a voltage just like cells do, but it's different. It's like a healthy red blood cell should be about 15 millivolts. Healthy cells should be more like 70. Right? But, again, red blood cells don't have a nucleus. So red blood cells are a different type of cell than most of our other cells that have a nucleus.

Bryant Meyers [00:24:13]:
But they do have a voltage, and when that voltage drops to 13 millivolts, then now think about it. It makes sense. Right? When you lose charge, remember, like repels like. Right? I used to do a little pith ball experiment in in physics in college when I talked college physics. You get these 2 little Styrofoam balls, you add charge to them, and they just fly apart. And it's because it's electrostatic repulsion. Right? So if your red blood cells are charged to 15 millivolts, they can't stick together because the electrostatic repulsion just you can think of it like 2 north poles of a magnet if that's easier to visualize. If you take 2 north poles of magnet, they just pussy push each other apart.

Bryant Meyers [00:24:48]:
If your magnet gets less if you lose magnetism, then you can easily push it apart in an El Nino. So that that energy, that repulsive energy is what well, PMF definitely helps to increase that voltage, but I I mean, my my hypothesis is red light does too because, again, the hemoglobin are have porphyrins. You know, heme is a porphyrin. In fact, there's different liver enzymes that also have porphyrins. The porphyrin we have porphyrin molecules in different enzymes in the body, but the most important one is hemoglobin and cytochrome c oxidase. Probably I mean, they're the 2 most maybe one of the most important molecules in all of nature is porphyrins.

Katie Deming [00:25:23]:
And so just to close this loop for people, hemoglobin red blood cells, when they are adequately charged at around 15 millivolts. Basically, they repel each other. They don't stick together. But if you start to lose that charge, they can stick together and they can create something called the effect, which is basically like a stack of coins or basically like stacking.

Bryant Meyers [00:25:45]:
Yeah. It looks like a coin. And so and the problem, of course, with that is obvious. Right? So if the capillaries can only fit one red blood cell at a time, and it has to fold in half literally, barely fits even one at a time, how could a whole bunch of them stuck together? It's like having, like, 10 people walk through a door that are all stuck together. Like, if you if you're somehow all, like, tied together where you can't, like, separate and try to get it through a door, I mean, you know, maybe you could now, of course, this is not an all or nothing. Otherwise, somebody would die. Right? You're gonna still have some red blood cells that'll make it through, but the more Releaux you have, the worse it gets, and that's comes from thick blood and losing what's called the zeta potential. The zeta potential of the blood is kind of an energetic property of the blood.

Bryant Meyers [00:26:26]:
And so when that collapses, you get rouleaux and thick blood, and and again, there's many sources of of causing that. But it's kind of all related to what we're talking about, you know, because it's basically and red light can reverse that too because, again, to me, that involves the collapse of the easy water. Like, if the blood if you just kinda lose that whole structure, it just collapses, and then you get all these unfavorable liquid properties of blood that come from a coagulation effects, right, where things start to get thicker. And this happens, like, in diabetics. You know, their blood is very thick. You know? And it's because all the sugar in their blood, but it's there's lower charge on their hemoglobin. And, again, this is why diabetics will end up with eye problems and kidney issues because those are where the blood vessels are the thinnest and the smallest. Right? Because their blood is just and that's why they get diabetic ulcers on their feet because if they gotta get the blood all the way in the feet, it's hard to get the blood all the way down there and all the way back up against gravity.

Bryant Meyers [00:27:18]:
Right? So when you have thick blood, these are the vulnerable areas in the body. Right? So kind of improving our zeta potential, which red light will do and PMF will do in some of these therapies and drinking good water, eating a anti inflammatory diet. Again, think sticky blood like ROS reactive oxygen. So if you have free radicals and if your body is inflamed, typically your blood is thicker for the most part because of the because the ROS makes the blood stickier and muddier or thicker. Right? So we don't want maple syrup flowing through our veins. We want it now we don't want it to be totally, like, totally water because it does then then then things can't clot when they if you cut yourself, you just keep bleeding. Right? So you're getting this certain amount of platelets in your blood to create blood clots when necessary. But usually, people are in the other direction.

Bryant Meyers [00:28:02]:
I mean, it's rare that somebody has the blood that's too thin. Unless you take too much blood thinning medication, then you can but that's artificial. Right? Yeah. But that all plays into this whole that's artificial. Right? Yeah. But that all plays into this whole process, though. Right? And red light increase is one of the known mechanisms that increases nitric oxide. Yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:28:11]:
So, actually, I wanted you to speak to this because earlier, you spoke about nitric oxide, but

Katie Deming [00:28:15]:
the bad nitric oxide dock docking on the

Bryant Meyers [00:28:25]:
Hydrochromes c. Yeah.

Katie Deming [00:28:26]:
Yeah. Cytochrome c oxidase. So can you explain this about nitric oxide is good and, you know, and there's also the kind that Oh, yeah. Yeah. So just to explain to people.

Bryant Meyers [00:28:36]:
This is very important. I'm glad you brought that up. Because so nitric oxide is sort of Janus face, sort of like the Greek Janus god. Right? There's 2 faces. Right? So the good nitric oxide is typically like the endothelial or neuronal nitric oxide. Endothelin nitric oxide is what's created on the inside of your blood vessels that does help to widen or dilate the blood cells. Right? Now the INOS or the bad guy typically is an inflammatory, like, when over inflamed response where there's too much nitric oxide. And too much nitric oxide is it's a free radical and it causes damage just like just like ROS is a reactive oxygen species.

Bryant Meyers [00:29:11]:
And but we know oxygen but oxygen is good. We want we need oxygen. Right? Well, there's something called RNS, reactive nitrogen species. Okay? That just like ROS are are are the bad form of nitric oxide. So just like oxygen is important and nitric oxide is important, their their evil twin is not is not good. And, again, it's kinda shifting the body, and what red light does is it kinda shifts the teeter totter on both ROS and RNS to more the healthy nitric oxide and the healthy and healthy oxygen binding. And so while oxygen binding is the healthy way that oxygen should be handled in the body, with nitric oxide, when you when red light kicks out this is one thing red light does, right, is it kicks out nitric oxide through photos of disassociation. And guess what? Now that that nitric oxide is liberated, that can diffuse into the extracellular and be beneficial now.

Bryant Meyers [00:30:07]:
So where it was bad in one role, like binding the cytochrome c, when it gets kicked out, because nitric oxide is still nitric oxide, all of a sudden now it can be the good guy. Right? So it's very important to know that both oxygen and nitric oxide are are 2 of the most important molecules for our health because they're very powerful free radicals. If they're not in balance, they it can cause damage like any free radical can. So so just like oxygen can cause rust, it's oxidative. Nitric oxide's oxidative too. But again, that's those it's that high power electronegativity that gives rise to its healing too. So it's kind of this double edged sword. Right?

Katie Deming [00:30:45]:
Okay. Perfect. So now you were starting to talk about the good benefits of nitric oxide. So and I just wanna make sure we talked about how it could have been problem before. So

Bryant Meyers [00:30:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because nitric oxide was the molecule of the year in 1992. Right? And actually, there was Nobel Prize won around its discovery. In fact, Time Magazine had a big article, molecule of the year nitric oxide. It was right on the cover of Time Magazine even. So it was a big deal and not I guess they do molecules of the year. I didn't even I

Katie Deming [00:31:10]:
didn't know that.

Bryant Meyers [00:31:12]:
I mean, maybe they don't anymore. Maybe that was just a special addition. But but, you know, we all hear about nitric oxide from cardiac health and circulation, and it's so important for our circulation and longevity because one of the main reasons that we die, in fact, one of the besides cancer, what's the other main leading cause of death?

Katie Deming [00:31:29]:
Heart disease.

Bryant Meyers [00:31:30]:
Heart disease. It probably edges cancer when you can include stroke. If you put stroke and and heart attack and all cardiovascular disease, it's gonna out the number of deaths will be greater than cancer. But the top they're both right up there. Right? So where does that come from? It comes from your pipes getting clogged up, basically. So I mean, they get stiff, you know, our arteriosclerosis, and then atherosclerosis is they get clogged up, a buildup. Right? So what nitric oxide does is it helps with both of those problems and helps again, it's helping to widen the blood vessels, make them wider, which means that it loosens them, be makes them less stiff. Right? So it's got, like, this ability to make the blood vessels more, like, resilient where they have more flexible yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:32:07]:
Flexible. Right. And then just by the widening effect, you got more blood now able to come through, and that almost kinda helps to wash away some of the buildup. Right? You got kind of and then again, you have with better circulation comes the immune cells can come, like, the macrophages can come and clean things up. Because, again, the body knows when there's an imbalance and it it can heal itself, but if everything's just all plugged up, it can't even get the immune cells to to do what they're supposed to do, then you have to get us and gonna be getting a stent or something to help the and those can be life saving, you know, but it's like nitric oxide is an is a biochemical stent. It's opening up the blood flow, and red light has been shown to directly increase nitric oxide. There's many mechanisms. One is from these molecules, which I can't remember off the top of my head, but around 660 to 670 nanometer red light has been shown to directly create nitric oxide from certain nitrogen molecules that reside in the body.

Bryant Meyers [00:32:58]:
Right? So it's almost like red light is almost like a nitric oxide generating engine in a way. So when you're laying on a red light bed, you're generating nitric oxide, beneficial nitric oxide. And again, the bad and you're helping to lower the bad guys. That's what's beautiful. It's like a teeter totter, right, with both oxygen and red and nitrogen nitric oxide. Red light actually tips the teeter totter both in the favorable direction for ATP production oxidative phosphorylation and tips the nitric oxide teeter totter in the form of the endothelium nitric oxide for circulation. Right? And so it kinda liberates nitric oxide, and so it's almost like the villain becoming the hero. It's like he was doing all this damage, but now he's been

Katie Deming [00:33:37]:
Some of these.

Bryant Meyers [00:33:39]:
Yeah. He's he's he's he kinda like he he realized that he got a it's like a new vision of what he could become, and it's like, you know, I'm gonna be a good guy now, and I'm gonna help this person be but so it's yeah. That's very it's it just shows you how life kinda teeters on this razor's edge. Right? I mean, if we do all these healthy lifestyle choices that you talk about in all your podcasts, you tip the teeter totter, you tip the scales in the right direction so that you get the favorable oxygen oxygen docking and energy, aerobic respiration, and you get the favorable nitric oxide for circulation.

Katie Deming [00:34:09]:
I love that. Oh, did did you have some more to say there? Well,

Bryant Meyers [00:34:12]:
I mean, the the the that's pretty I don't want I mean, there's we could say more, but I don't wanna get, like, we can get too too technical with the metabolic metabolic pathways. But it is kind of fascinating, like, how red light specifically helps generate nitric oxide through these. There have been many, many good papers on that too.

Katie Deming [00:34:29]:
Yeah. What I would love to do is to talk about practical, like, you know, how can people get red light from the sun? And then if we're thinking about using red light therapy or photobiomodulation. Right? Is that the name of it? Yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:34:43]:
Photo yeah. Photobiomodulation. Yeah. Mouthful.

Katie Deming [00:34:45]:
I think that's why people say red lights because it's so hot.

Bryant Meyers [00:34:48]:
It is. It is.

Katie Deming [00:34:48]:
But I'm wondering if you can tell people, okay. What are the natural ways that we can be getting red light? You already talked about in terms of the sun, but it's like, is it any time of day? Kinda thinking about that piece. And then I would love to dive into if someone wants to do red light, what should they be looking for in a device and and kinda guiding people in that direction?

Bryant Meyers [00:35:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. And again, we were we just talked about nitric oxide ATP. There's also a whole another talk about the anti inflammatory effects of nitric oxide, I mean, of red light therapy and the regenerate the tissue regenerative effects of increasing growth factors and, you know, nerve regeneration. So so not only does it help with circulation and ATP mitochondrial function, but those begin the cascades of all these regenerative pathways too. There's so many wonderful benefits. But getting into the practical, just how can I, kinda, how can I enjoy these benefits? Right? So with the sun, I mean, there's different schools of thought on ultraviolet light because some say only get early morning sun exposure because you wanna avoid the UV damage. Right? But it's like, well, don't you want vitamin d, though? So it's like, I don't know that that's really a subtle so, I mean, obviously, it's clear that you don't wanna sit out in the sun too long.

Katie Deming [00:35:58]:
But I think that this is a question is what is the optimal time to get red light? Because the way that I talk to clients about it is that you can get red light from the sun without getting the UV exposure in the early morning and then the evening, and then you can go out in midday to get your vitamin d. And so I'm just wondering in terms of getting that red light, what are, you know, some of the things that people can think about in getting that red light from the sun?

Bryant Meyers [00:36:26]:
Yeah. I mean, again, get from the sun, you're correct, I mean, what you said. So now I don't, again, there as far as, like, how much red light is there in the morning compared to noonday, I mean I mean, in noonday, there's less atmosphere for all light to go through. So you're always gonna be getting more in the middle of the day, but you get more of the UV as well. Right? So I think it's just you gotta be able to look common sense with not overdoing the UV exposure. Because to me, it's like my common sense is like, if I'm peeling and I'm burned, I've overdone it. If I'm not burned and I'm not peeling, I'm probably fine. I mean, maybe that's just too simplistic, but but I like to get out in the sun almost every day.

Bryant Meyers [00:37:02]:
But I only do a short period of time. I don't overdo it. And if I start getting peel, I'm actually, I think I'm getting a little too much right now, then I know I said, okay, Brian, you're doing too much. And then I back off, right? So I don't think it's really rocket science. I think we kind of know when we're getting too much, you know, if we just pay attention. You know, the sun shouldn't be a big scare. Like, people, oh, I don't wanna get skin cancer. They just think they should avoid the sun.

Bryant Meyers [00:37:22]:
But that's that you're you're missing out on a big basically, a free way a a type of therapy. Heliotherapy. Right? It's it's actually back in the early 1900, they had heliotherapy clinics up in the mountains where they basically would go up and they would send people that had, like, almost incurable diseases just enough in the fresh mountain air and put them give them daily sun baths. So, yes, don't be too scared. But yet it there is something to say about overdoing the sun. I mean, obviously, we see all the people from well, I'm here in Florida, right, where they they're clearly doing too much sun exposure. Right? Their their skin gets leathery and but that's so, yeah, it's probably doing too much there. But the nice thing about red light therapy is there's no UV.

Bryant Meyers [00:38:01]:
Right? So you can get that full dose of in fact, you get a more concentrated dose of red light just to power up your mitochondria, improve nitric oxide, healing regeneration, help with wrinkles, and all these wonderful things without having to worry about UV and how not having to worry about if it's cloudy outside or if you live in Seattle or, you know, some places that don't get that much sun. Right? Yeah. So yeah. So in in probably in a perfect world, if we really spent enough time outdoors, we probably could get all of the red light that we needed from the sun.

Katie Deming [00:38:31]:
Yeah. Well and in the past, we did. Right? Before we were living in houses and well, and one of the things so just so that people know kind of what I recommend in terms of the sun, Like, if someone wants to be getting red light and vitamin d from the sun with staying safe with UV exposure Brian is exactly right that we are designed to be in the sun. And as long as you're out and building up slowly so that you don't get burned, you know, when you just go out and spend an hour in midday sun without working your way up to that, that's gonna be a problem. But as much time as you can spend in the sun without burning is a very good recommendation. But if people are nervous and say you have very fair skin or whatever, there is an app that's called D Minder. And it's a way for you to calculate how much sun exposure to get with your skin type given your location geographically in the latitude so that you get the vitamin d that you need without burning. And so that's an option.

Katie Deming [00:39:30]:
If someone is fair skinned and worried about burning, going out in the morning to get your red light or in the evening and then using the Dminder app in the midday is one way that you can do that without worrying that you're gonna get yourself into trouble. So I just wanted to throw that out there for people.

Bryant Meyers [00:39:45]:
And, also, wear your Speedo and your bikini because you want as much skin. Or if you got the privacy of a of a backyard with fence around it, just get your whole solar panel out there. Right? Because we we we do photosynthesize like plants. So the more surface you because clothes do block sunlight.

Katie Deming [00:40:00]:
Absolutely.

Bryant Meyers [00:40:00]:
So the more clothes you have, you're gonna get less heliotherapy. Now I'm not saying you gotta be mindful of your of your neighbors. Don't be too care you know? But the more skin, the better. Be really. I mean, that's, one of the best words. Absolutely. In fact, if you can do naked I'm just gonna say it. If you can do naked sunbathing and you have the privacy to do it, do it.

Bryant Meyers [00:40:17]:
That's the best way to do it. Front and back. Get your whole solar panel, like, just flip the burger, you know, kinda get it. It. But it's but it's really I mean, it's good for the the sex hormones to do that. Yeah. You know, because if you got that area covered, you're not they're kinda missing out. It's like, hey, give us some sun, you know.

Bryant Meyers [00:40:33]:
Yeah. I get it. In this day and age, that's most people can't do that. But But

Katie Deming [00:40:37]:
if you have the privacy, absolutely.

Bryant Meyers [00:40:39]:
But if you have the privacy, that's the best way to do it. But you certainly red light panels is a good way to supplement just like walking barefoot, you know, and grounding, earthing, and, you know, PMF not being outside, getting enough of the earth's magnetism, so supplement with PMF. You know, red light panels and red light therapy is a good way to supplement not getting enough of, you know, the red light from the sun.

Katie Deming [00:40:59]:
So tell us, what should people be considering when they're looking at either purchasing red light for themselves or maybe they're going to a place. Is all red light the same if you go to the tanning salon that has a red light versus a wellness spa? Do you know?

Bryant Meyers [00:41:13]:
I'm glad you brought that up because, yes, the tanning salons a lot of times have the red fluorescent tubes. That that is not how you wanna do red light. That's not gonna give you therapeutic red light therapy. Unfortunately, a lot of people go to the tanning slots. They and they're cheaper. I mean, obviously, the tanning slots don't wanna spend the money for a good red light bed because they can get the cheap ones a lot cheaper, but the problem is is because they're not LEDs, they're just basically putting, like, a red coating around the fluorescent light bulb or on the tube. Right? So you're not getting real red light red light. I mean, you do get a little bit because even if you take, like, just red I mean, you get red color therapy if you put your a red a big red transparent thing up to the sun, you know, you can red red's coming through.

Bryant Meyers [00:41:53]:
So, obviously, there is some you know, it's filtering out some wavelengths and letting red through, but it's just not the ideal way to do it. I mean, it's red LEDs can give you a very precise wavelengths in the well known ranges of you know, it's like 600 to 708100 to 900, nanometers, roughly. I would say 66100 to, like, 67680, and then 800 to, like, 86870. Those are the peak cytochrome c oxidase absorption spectrum. You notice that 700 is not in there. Why is that? Well, the 700 do penetrate fairly well, but they don't get absorbed by cytochrome c. They're not bioactive wavelengths. It's sort of like taking a multivitamin that just goes right through you.

Bryant Meyers [00:42:35]:
It doesn't do anything. But again, I found most red light panels and beds seem to have the right wavelengths more or less. The problem is is they're either underpowered usually underpowered, sometimes overpowered. So you don't want to do too much red light, but the problem is usually most of these panels are just some of the cheap ones from China. You're not getting enough radiance. And some of those little, like, pads you lay on, they got these full body red light pads now. It's like Christmas tree light irradiances. And, again, if you don't have fans to cool off your LEDs, you're probably way underpowered.

Bryant Meyers [00:43:08]:
Because, again, most good panels that are high powered, they have little fans in them because you're getting a lot of energy, so they do heat up. But, of course, LEDs are gonna heat up because 70% of LEDs is like thermal gets thermalized. So if you're just laying on a bed of red light little bulbs and you don't feel any warmth or ever hardly any at all, I mean, you're probably not getting the what's considered to be Michael Hamlin is one of the experts on photobiomodulation, one of the world experts. Right? He says you want to get at least 5 milliwatts per centimeter squared in a radiance. So we're talking about wavelength. Now radiance is like the power or how much how much of that wavelength. Right? So it's like how bright is the light. So you can think of, like, the colors of the rainbow is like a wavelength.

Bryant Meyers [00:43:48]:
You know, each color has a different wavelength. Right? And how bright the bulb is is is your radiance. Brighter has got more energy. So you do need a certain amount of brightness or radiance from your red light panel or bed, or it's just not therapeutic. You're just not getting enough. So typically, I think based on my research, if you look at the peak radiances of the sun, like in sunny areas of the world, you should be getting around 30 milliwatts per centimeter squared at least. But you don't wanna go too high. You know, some of the panels go over, like, a 100 milliwatts per centimeter squared, even though they really don't because they're not measuring it right.

Bryant Meyers [00:44:21]:
But but if they were measuring it right, that would be too much. So what happens is it's called the biphasic dose response of red light, and this is well mapped out in research. Right? That there is a Goldilocks zone of just the right amount of of radiance. Right? If you don't get enough, you get no effect, but if you get too much, it causes ROS and oxidative stress. So again, you can tip the teeter totter too far. It's like overtraining, right? We know exercise is good, so a little stress is good. It's hormesis, right? A little stress is good, strengthens our body, makes us more resilient, but if we get too much stress, that's called eustress, right? The good stress. But if we get too much stress, which includes red light therapy, then we cause oxidative stress and cause problems.

Bryant Meyers [00:45:04]:
So it's been shown that too much irradiance will increase ROS where just the right amount gives it it's weird it's really interesting. You get a temporary burst of ROS just like exercise And what that does is it stimulates this n r f two pathway that stimulates antioxidant proteins. It's like a strengthening. Right? Your body you're doing a little bit of stress to make and your body respond by making itself stronger. But if you do too much stress, then you just the body can't respond to become stronger because you've overdone it. Right? It's like overcooking the turkey in a way. You can think of it like that too.

Katie Deming [00:45:37]:
So how would people know? I mean, so, obviously, the tanning salon, like, how would they know to ask? Like, what are they asking for these places that they might go to do red light therapy to have a sense of whether it is in the right range?

Bryant Meyers [00:45:51]:
I mean, if you're getting, like, a full body bed and it's actual LED and you know it's LEDs or tubes, it's obvious. If they just have the long big, long red tubes, look like big, long fluorescent light bulbs, then you know it's not what you want. LEDs are like little you know, they're little ball I mean, there's gonna be a whole bunch of LEDs in the bed, so it's very obvious that it's a good bed or not. Right? If you're getting a whole body bed, you almost don't have to worry. You're gonna probably get enough radiance. I doubt that there's gonna be a problem. As long as you're not getting the tubes again, remember, if you they look like the red fluorescent light bulbs, that's not the kind of red light therapy you want.

Katie Deming [00:46:24]:
And then so that's if they're going to a place as they're looking for the ones that has all the little, like, you know, lights separate.

Bryant Meyers [00:46:30]:
Usually, thousands of them. I mean, they're just a full and that's why they're more expensive. You know, it's a lot more expensive to use that many thousands of LEDs than it is that use like, a dozen red light tubes, like, fluorescent tubes. Yeah. They're literally just coated with a I mean, it's just it's sad that people are thinking that's red light therapy.

Katie Deming [00:46:47]:
And can you speak to you know, this is one of the things people are buying red light. There's so many devices now to buy red lights and maybe not even the the big beds, but the panels and then the smaller devices. Are there things that people should be watching out for? I know when we talked about the PMF devices and you gave us some cautions. Is there a similar, you know, things that we should be looking out for and not purchasing in terms of red light?

Bryant Meyers [00:47:13]:
Yeah. I I would not get it's a big trend right now to get these cheap Chinese, like, full body red light mats. It's almost like just a little yo like a big long yoga mat that's got all these red light bulbs woven in. They're just ridiculously lower radiance. You're not getting enough. Now the panels the panels can be a good option, but you to get full body red light, which is my whole my book is on full body red light there because I do think it's important to get a full body immersion. You can't use a little small panel and think you're gonna cover your whole body. It just doesn't work.

Bryant Meyers [00:47:40]:
You need the silhouette of your body outlined in the panel that you're which means you've gotta get 4 or 6 full big panels of say platinum, you know, Mito Red or or Red Rush or or Juve or all those popular brands. Right? They're all they're all pretty good. I wouldn't settle some some of the off brand ones are just coming straight from China and they some don't have enough radiance. So, you know, someone like Alex I think his name Alex Ferguson on YouTube, he's got like a really good reviewing channel, and he uses the same spectroradiometer that I have. Spectroradiometers measure the radiance accurately. A lot of companies are deceptive with using solar meters to measure radiance. That's not how you measure light. So they end up reporting a radiances that are twice of what they really are.

Bryant Meyers [00:48:19]:
And I got to and my book my book at redlightbook.net, you can actually read it for free right now, redlightbook.net. I have a whole chapter on radiance and how to understand that and wavelength and irradiance. It's kinda like a buyer's guide in a way. It's understanding which wavelengths, which irradiance, and kinda how I help people to see through the some of the deceptions out there.

Katie Deming [00:48:37]:
And what chapter is that?

Bryant Meyers [00:48:39]:
That's chapter 11 is on irradiance.

Katie Deming [00:48:41]:
Okay. Irradiance. Okay. So we'll link this to the show notes so people can go there and read that. Because I think this is really important is that when you're purchasing these machines, you know that it's going to get you in that Goldilocks zone. You know? And and and we don't want to be causing more problems, obviously, with doing these therapies.

Bryant Meyers [00:49:02]:
I mean, I like the cooking the turkey analogy. If you don't have enough irradiance, it's like putting your turkey in the oven at at a 150 degrees. Yeah. It's not gonna cook. And doing too much irradiance is like putting it at 500 degrees. It'll cook, but you're gonna get a burned outside and then a and a frozen inside. I mean, so there's like a a Goldilocks range of irradiances and time, and that's the other thing is dosage or time. Most of the full body beds that have a good irradiance, you really only need 15 to 20 minutes 3 times a week.

Bryant Meyers [00:49:29]:
So you can just and you don't have to do 3 times a week forever. Based on some of the photobiomodulation studies I've looked at, if you do 3 times a week just for a month, let's say a Novothor or like a good like our bed, our Spectre red light where I say Novathor because there are more locations now. Eventually, our bed hopefully will be in locations. So because I am involved with, you know, in the production of what I think is the best red light bed. But it's it's very expensive, though. And I know most people don't have, like, $65,000 to spend. So the beds but the but the really good beds are that's why you go to a clinic, right? Novathor's cost 140,000. Right? So and I do have a Novathor in my house.

Bryant Meyers [00:50:06]:
So I mean, it's but most people don't have that much money to spend. So that's where the panels are usually a better option. But if you can get a good package at a clinic and use a really good red light bed, like, say, our bed or Novathor

Katie Deming [00:50:18]:
What is your bed called? Novathor is the other one, and then yours is

Bryant Meyers [00:50:21]:
Ours is spectra redlight.com. Spectra redlight.com. We also have a full body panel, but at $17,000 just because we're just doing things that nobody else is doing. So I get it. We're not really catering to the people looking for the best price, but I do understand that people need to watch their budget. So, you know, like I said, like Platinum, Mito Red, Red Rush, Juve. You know, the well known name brands are gonna have good irradiances, and they're gonna have you just gotta be careful for the off brands.

Katie Deming [00:50:49]:
Mhmm.

Bryant Meyers [00:50:50]:
And like I said, try to get at least 4 of the you're gonna have to spend, like, probably 5 or 6,000 at least to get a full body immersion because to me, that's the way to do it. Just one panel, you're only getting red light straight on from that silhouette and actually mostly right in the middle. The problem with that is people don't realize most of the red light is this little this little, like, a little line down your chest if you're standing in front of one of the panels. You're just not getting full body coverage. I mean, it's better than it's still good, but it's not as good as getting, like, say, ideally, 6. Because 6, the whole silhouette of your body can fully fit in 6 panels unless you're, like, really big. But most people and that and that typically does cost, you know, like 5 or 6,000 at least. But, yes, it's worthwhile investment.

Bryant Meyers [00:51:30]:
Again, good PMF devices can also be in that that ballpark, you know? Yeah. So I think it's well investing in quality and doing it right.

Katie Deming [00:51:38]:
Yeah. Or if you can't, finding a clinic that has those units that are give you that value, it's worthwhile to do that. So

Bryant Meyers [00:51:47]:
Well, yeah, I was let me finish that train of thought. So if you do, let's say, in an NovoThor 3 times a week for a month, then you can just do once a week. They found that if you do just once a week after that in fact, in the study, they did 12 sessions with the control groups. This is a fibromyalgia study with Enobathor. And they only did 12 sessions total, and they did a 3 month checkup. 3 months later, they were still doing good. So the benefits lasted.

Katie Deming [00:52:12]:
And that was just and they didn't do anything, not even once a week.

Bryant Meyers [00:52:16]:
No. They didn't do once a week. I'm just saying, to me, ideally, because it's like it's like brushing your teeth. It's like charging up your I mean, like, PMF. Right? Why not charge up your cells in your mitochondria every day or at least once a week with a full body bed?

Katie Deming [00:52:29]:
Yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:52:30]:
So that because I know some of these places will charge I mean, well, it depends where you go, but sometimes you can get 60 to $80 for a bed session. I mean, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. But if you just think of it, I'm just gonna spend this money 3 times a week for, whatever, a month. Then after that, do once a week, then it's not so bad. Right?

Katie Deming [00:52:47]:
Yeah.

Bryant Meyers [00:52:48]:
Or invest in a full body panel and just do it right and get the full immersion. But, again, with the with the panels, you still gotta go front and back.

Katie Deming [00:52:55]:
Yeah. With a

Bryant Meyers [00:52:55]:
bed, you're getting it all at once. Yeah. And there is I'm telling you, I've used panels are good, but, I mean, when you go to a bed, it's like a whole another experience.

Katie Deming [00:53:03]:
Yeah. Well, I know that just because

Bryant Meyers [00:53:05]:
It's an upgrade. Definitely. I can I can feel it in the gym? And you know where I noticed it was when I my strength in my workouts when I first started using the full body bed, it was just, like, 30% more strength. It was, like, just a whole it was undeniable. Right? And I had been using it was a half bed, but not enough a radiance. It was 2 those two problems. It was not enough a radiance and only half of the bed.

Katie Deming [00:53:28]:
Well, and I do know too from myself that when I was going to a clinic that had a bed and got the whole body 3 times a week for 15 minutes, I felt different. My skin looked different. It's it's definitely a different game. So absolutely. Well, Brian, thank you so much for coming back and talk to us about PM p about red light this time. And I think we also are gonna do another session with you about electro swag and how to protect our homes. I'm excited to talk about that. But tell everyone again where to find you.

Katie Deming [00:54:02]:
We will make sure we put all the links to your YouTube and your website on here.

Bryant Meyers [00:54:08]:
Yeah. I mean, well, my site just to re contact me is just bryantmeyers.com. Just my name.com, all one word, bryantmeyers.com. If you know, again, if you're interested in the market for both either PMF or red light, feel free to call me. My book is available for free. I mean, pretty much it's online. It's not it's just like a website, but chapter by chapter. But you can still read the book online at redlightbook.net dotnet.

Bryant Meyers [00:54:33]:
But there's a lot. It's a great there's a buyer's guide in there. I mean, it's got tons of information. In fact, I go into much more detail on all these things we talked about. And so, yeah, that's a good resource for, you know, for learning about red light and as a buyer's guide to find make sure you get the right one.

Katie Deming [00:54:47]:
Perfect. Well, thank you so much, and I look forward to the next time.

Bryant Meyers [00:54:50]:
Yes. Likewise. Alright.

Katie Deming [00:54:55]:
Thank you for joining me on Born to Heal. It's been a privilege to share this time with you, and I hope that today's episode has offered you valuable insights on your journey toward optimal health. Please consider subscribing, sharing this podcast with your friends, and leaving us a review. To learn more about how you can work with me, please visit katydemming.com. You can find additional resources in the episode show notes linked below, and remember to join us next week as we continue to explore more holistic approaches to healing. Until then, this is doctor Katie Deming reminding you that just like me, you were born to heal.