Free Guide – 3 Things You Need to Know About Cancer: https://www.katiedeming.com/cancer-101/
Imagine being faced with a cancer diagnosis for the third time. What would your next move be?
Dr. Katie Deming dives into the remarkable journey of her client, Dina Cataldo, who decided to take an unconventional route when breast cancer returned. Discover how Dina embraced a comprehensive wellness approach, integrating physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual practices to combat her diagnosis.
Key takeaways:
• The potential of holistic approaches in cancer treatment
• How to implement a healing-focused nutrition plan
• The benefits and challenges of extended water fasting
• Techniques for managing stress during health crises
• Ways to effectively communicate your health choices to others
Chapters:
8:12 – Conventional vs. Alternative Approaches
17:13 – The Holistic Healing Program
27:48 – Nutrition and Detoxification
36:01 – The 14-Day Water Fast Experience
47:36 – Surprising Mammogram Results
Dr. Katie and Dina explore the transformative power of nutrition, detoxification methods, and an intense 14-day water fast. They break down complex concepts into easily digestible information, making it accessible for everyone. Learn about the crucial skill of listening to your body, the potential advantages of alternative therapies, and how seemingly small lifestyle adjustments can yield significant health improvements.
They also discuss the importance of creating a supportive environment during the healing process. Sharing practical tips on how to communicate with family, friends, and even healthcare providers about your chosen path to wellness, especially when it differs from conventional methods.
Dina also touches on the role of stress management in healing. She reveals some of the techniques she used to keep her stress levels in check during her healing journey, from meditation to specific breathing exercises that anyone can incorporate into their daily routine.
Together, they explore the concept of that there's no one-size-fits-all approach to health and healing. They discuss how to tailor holistic practices to your unique needs and circumstances, empowering you to create a personalized healing plan.
Listen, learn, and gain a new perspective on what's possible when it comes to healing. You might even feel inspired to take charge of your own health in ways you never considered before.
Connect with Guest, Dina Cataldo: https://dinacataldo.com/
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MORE FROM KATIE DEMING M.D.
Free Guide – 3 Things You Need to Know About Cancer: https://www.katiedeming.com/cancer-101/
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Read the Transcript Below:
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Born to Heal podcast. Today, I am joined by a very special guest, Dina Cataldo, who is one of my friends and also clients. And today, we're gonna share her success story of healing breast cancer. So, Dina, welcome to the show.Dina Cataldo [00:00:26]:
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to get to talk to you about this.Dr. Katie Deming [00:00:30]:
I know. I'm so excited to share with my audience because I know so much, but they don't. And you have a really beautiful story. And have also the one thing that I wanna say is that whenever I do these episodes of a success story, this is not about what I have done in your healing. It's really the work of my clients. Like, my clients who are getting these extraordinary results are extraordinary human beings. So Dina is an extraordinary human being who has really done the work to heal herself. So I just wanna start by saying that because I think that healing is an internal job, and I I am the guide who kinda comes along your side and walks with you through the journey, but the work really comes from within.Dr. Katie Deming [00:01:23]:
So I honor what you have done here, you know, and I want people to know that from the beginning of this episode that this is really about what you have created.
Dina Cataldo [00:01:33]:
So That just made me tear up as you were saying that because because it it really is something that, you know, when you go through something like this, like, the people who are listening right now are people who are maybe experiencing something that feels incredibly challenging. And when you expressed what you just expressed, it just reminded me of, oh, yeah. Like, I've gone through those things and I've made it to the other side. So I just wanna offer for anyone listening that if you feel challenged right now that this is something that you can do too.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:02:08]:
Absolutely. I mean, in your living example of what is possible. So and now they're gonna be like, well, what's happened? What's happened? Tell us all the things. So okay. Dina, I would love for you let's start the story with when you came to me, which I wanna say was in April. And what was happening at that time, and, you know, what were the circumstances that brought you to work with me?
Dina Cataldo [00:02:36]:
Yeah. So, I mean, if to be honest, the circumstances that brought me to work with you happened maybe when I was 29 years old. I'm 44 now. Right? So, I mean, this was my 3rd time earlier this year, it's 2024, where I've been diagnosed with breast cancer. And when I was 29 years old, I was a young trial attorney. I was working a 1000000 hours a week, and I was diagnosed at 29 years old, which to me seemed crazy. Like 29, I should not have breast cancer. And at that point in time, I recognized that I needed to figure out a better way to live.
Dina Cataldo [00:03:21]:
I started, you know, the way that I knew how without any guidance slowing things down and figuring out how to be a lawyer and not kill myself, literally. And I was doing really well. I made a lot of a lot of changes over the years, but then I was diagnosed a couple years ago, but this time my breast cancer had migrated into my right lung. And I had surgery and I had it removed. But, you know, when I got it this 3rd time, right, when I was diagnosed with it, I thought this is not the way to handle it. Like, I've gone through chemotherapy at 29. I did radiation at 29. They told me, you know, it hasn't gone to the rest of your body because your lymph nodes are clear.
Dina Cataldo [00:04:11]:
And I believed I believed it. Like like I heard it and I said, okay, well, you're you're the people I need to trust. You know what you're doing. So I followed that guidance. I went through those treatments. And then I got it again a couple years ago and I thought, okay, well, this is something that needs to be handled. I'll have I'll handle it surgically. It was removed.
Dina Cataldo [00:04:31]:
I didn't do additional treatment, but I kept being monitored. So when I received this diagnosis earlier this year, there was just something that clicked with me that said, this is this is something I need to handle differently. This is something that there's something else happening. It's not entirely, you know, around stress because I don't have the same stressors. Like, there's other things that are happening and they're not being addressed. And I don't know what they are, but I know I need to do something different. And I talked to one of our mutual friends and they recommended me to you. And then when I connected with you, what I had been through in the past and what I was experiencing in the present and what my options were.
Dina Cataldo [00:05:13]:
And I I think, you know, as as well meaning as the doctors in the in Western medicine are, they don't necessarily have all of the tools and don't have have those kinds of things available to them that I was able to receive from you who has both perspectives of someone with that background of Western medicine but then also understanding that, yeah, there's other things going on besides how it's being how cancer is being treated in the the traditional medical practices.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:05:57]:
Yeah. So and, specifically, when this recurrence or this new area in the other breast, So you had had surgery on the left breast initially, correct, back when you were 29?
Dina Cataldo [00:06:13]:
So here, it was left breast in 29, right lung 2 years ago, and then again in the left breast just earlier this year.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:06:22]:
Okay. So, yeah, I just wanna clarify that. So this had come back in the left breast. And tell me what the conventional doctors had told you were your options so that we can just kinda get to, like, okay. What was it that you were dealing with at this at this point when you came to me?
Dina Cataldo [00:06:44]:
Right. So this and it so when I went in to see my doctor who I'd been working with because she'd been monitoring me for, I don't know, 14 years now. And she recommended I get a mastectomy that I have my left breast removed, I do reconstructive surgery, and then that that was really the only option that she gave me. And I was kind of in shock when I received this this third discussion, like, this third diagnosis. I was just like, I'm doing all the things, like, why is this happening again? Mastectomy, but I'm thinking, well, I guess maybe that does make sense because it's it's happening again. And the way she said it is what made it click to me is she said that there's like some there's some kind of defect. There's something wrong on the left the left breast. And that's really what made me click.
Dina Cataldo [00:07:38]:
It's like this has nothing to do with it doesn't have anything to do with what I've thought it was all these years. Like, there was some kind something I wasn't quote unquote doing right. It was no. I need to just balance something. Like, this is an imbalance. It just it just clicked with me that it was an imbalance. But I didn't know what else I could do at that point. All I had was, Okay.
Dina Cataldo [00:08:03]:
We should just have it removed.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:08:05]:
Yeah. Okay. So you came to me at this point. And this is the way that I was thinking. Because I was like, Okay. I'm just gonna, for a minute, I wanna think like a traditional Western oncologist to say, Does the treatment that they're recommending make sense, given the full diagnosis. So given this history of what you've described, it's you already had stage 4 disease because it had originated in the left breast, it had spread to the lung a few years ago, that had been removed, You'd had the lumpectomy, you know, back initially. And then this new area in the breast actually was what they described as DCIS, which is a stage 0.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:08:50]:
It was thought to be a second breast cancer in the left breast that was noninvasive. So DCIS, by definition, means it's not gonna spread to the lymph nodes. It's not life threatening. And so, in my mind, I was like, if I'm thinking like a mastectomy for something that is a stage 0 breast cancer if, in their minds, you already had stage 4 disease? And so this is the very first conversation that we had. Actually, I remember you being so surprised that you were like, oh, wait. Right. Like, why do they wanna take my breast off if it's stage 0? You know, and they already think that it's spread. You know, why would they wanna take my breast off? So that was the first question is and this is a lot of the time what I'm doing for people in the initial consultation is just looking at, okay, does this make sense? Does the plan that is being recommended make sense in the context of what the Western medicine thinks? And then we also look at it from, like, outside that to say, okay.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:10:00]:
Well, outside that, does that make sense? But, initially, I wanna just even understand where they're coming from. So I started to question. I said I mean, personally, I'm thinking if they think you have stage 4 disease, why are we gonna remove your breast, which is a very, you know, psychologically devastating procedure. Like, why are we gonna take your breast off for a stage 0 breast cancer? Like, why is that the first option? And that within reconstruction, I just thought it was aggressive for what we were looking at, which was a stage 0 new breast cancer. And so that was the first question was just to say, okay. Let's start asking your doctors, is this really what needs to happen? And because it's stage 0 and you were so interested in changing, in doing something different this time, in taking an approach that is not what you had done before, which had been to follow the conventional protocols, you know, I said, what do you think about going to your surgeon and just saying, hey. If this is a stage 0 breast cancer, I really want to do some aggressive natural healing. Can you give me some time? Can you give me 3 months to approach this naturally and then reassess to see how the results are so that then we can make a decision.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:11:29]:
And if it progresses or if it hasn't changed or whatever, then we can regroup just, you know, using their frame of mind, around the, you know, the approach that they're thinking. So and I apologize, everyone, for my dogs. I'm not sure my dogs are having, like, very active while we're on this call. But, anyway, you might hear some barking in the background. But, anyway, so what happened then after when we had that first conversation,
Dina Cataldo [00:12:10]:
mind. Right? Like, I knew that just from prior discussions that we've had about other topics. So I felt like I could bring this to her and lay it out and say, hey, I would like to do this more naturally. And she knew that that's where I was. She knew I was healthy, you know, yoga, all the things and she recognized that this was something that, you know, I was I was I would tend towards in other areas of my life. So it was interesting to hear her thought process out loud because she was thinking out loud about what would make her comfortable moving forward. It's really interesting to hear her say, well, if there was a cancer to try this on, it would be this one because it was a noninvasive and that would that made her feel better. She still wanted to have more tests, and that was fine.
Dina Cataldo [00:13:10]:
Like, I didn't have a problem with that. And then when we scheduled those, it was after I had done the my work with you so that we could see what's the before and the after. And that was something that, she was it took her a little bit of time to kind of work herself there. I could see another doctor maybe not having that ability. But I I saw her get herself there and, oh, and be in a position where she could then be on my team and assist me with the screenings, but not feel like she has to jump in with surgery.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:13:52]:
Yeah. Well and I think that this is an important topic that we're addressing right now, which is talking to your doctors about giving you, potentially, time to explore these other options. And, you know, one of the things that you and I spent quite a bit of time talking through on that initial consultation was, how do you bring this to your doctor so that they can be open? And also, you know, you had said to me that one of the reasons why you had been with this doctor is because she was quite open. And I think that this is a factor to think about if you want to pursue natural treatments and you do have a conventional oncologist or surgeon or both, probably, to search around for those people who are open, who will, you know and and I love how you said that, that she was, you know, out loud, kind of convincing herself. And that's a lot of it, actually, is when you bring these ideas of buying some time and not jumping into the conventional protocols right away. Your doctor's gonna need a little bit of time to process that and get on board with it and feel comfortable with it, You know? And if they're not, then maybe you need to look for another doctor. Right? But fortunately for you and you also had this relationship with this doctor that you guys had been together for quite a few years. So, I think that, you know, when you approach your doctor, you want to think about the way they think.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:15:33]:
And that's why I was like, okay. From their perspective, how can we talk about this? You know, and and what I said to you is I said, you know, from her perspective, it's stage 4. And now there's this stage 0. So this is an area that it makes sense that if there's any time that they could give you some, you know, time to explore other options, this is it. And I think that you did such a good job of communicating that to your doctor to bring her along and keep her on the team, you know, while we looked at an alternative to, you know, do more natural healing. So and I say that that's that's a skill, you know, and you're obviously skilled at communication as an attorney, and convincing people, right, of things. So, that was definitely a gift that worked in your favor. But I think for people who are listening, it's just, like, knowing that you don't have to hide all of this from your doctors.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:16:32]:
You can find a doctor who will be on the team with you as you explore other options. So, so what I wanna talk about now is, you know, with all of my clients, the approach is multifaceted. You know, we're we're, looking at the physical body. How do we detox the physical body? How do we give the physical body the nourishment that it needs that it may not be getting? How do we help clear emotional trauma? How do we help you become more fluid with your emotions? How do we program the subconscious mind? How do we help direct your mind to the outcome that we want? And then, spiritually, how do we help ensure that you are aligned with your authentic self? So the work that Dina did with me was over 12 weeks and we addressed all of these areas. So I want to be clear that it's never just one thing. And one of the things that I really appreciate about you, Dena, is that you are so open and so committed that, like, you are because this is it's it's you know, sometimes people will be open, but then they're not really disciplined and committed to doing the work. But you are open, like, wide open to exploring the potentials of all these different areas. Even though you've done, actually, a lot of personal development work, you've done a lot of work in these areas.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:18:09]:
But what we were looking at is, like, okay. How can we dig deeper? How can we find the places where maybe there is something that is causing a block that is leading to development of disease in the body? And, I guess, one question that I have for you is when we initially started the work together and you were looking at all these things, and I know you've done so much of the personal development work. What for you was, like, either an like, oh, wow. You know, this is something new. Or or was it, like, oh, I've done a lot of these things, but I'm willing to go deeper. I'm kinda wondering what your response was because a lot of people come to me and they're like, Look, I've done so much, like, deep work that I don't think there's anything left to be done. And you would fall into those that cat you could easily fall into that category. And I'm wondering what made you so open.
Dina Cataldo [00:19:09]:
What made me so open? Well, I think one of the things that made me so open was my knowledge that there was something else happening that I couldn't explain because I I am deeply spiritual, and I, you know, I'm deeply and I, you know, I know that there are things that I can't explain that occur. And one of them was this recurrence in my body of cancer. And I'm like, I that's one of the things that made me so open because whenever I see something that I know is going to help me grow and that's what I really that's how I look at every experience of cancer I've had. And and that might make me a little different than some people, but when I look at it, maybe not the first time, the first time I was freaked out and then it took me a little bit to get on board with after the fact. Oh, this is the best thing that ever happened to me. Like, I truly believe that that the cancer I had at 29 was the best thing that ever happened to me. And every time I've had cancer since a diagnosis of it, then I looked at it as this is my opportunity to take myself to the next level. Like, that's how I look at it.
Dina Cataldo [00:20:27]:
That's my mindset going into it. And I understand that if it's maybe your first experience or even if it's not your first experience having a diagnosis of some sort that it can be difficult to get yourself there. But if you really look back at the progress you make after the fact, and you really look at, wow, look at the person I am now compared to who I was before, I guarantee that there's going to be a significant difference. But one of the things that you and I worked on that I thought I was doing really good work on and I was like, Yeah, this is great. Like, I'm I'm I'm eating healthy, you know, I'm I'm doing really well. It was my food. I thought I was eating so healthy, and I was compared to maybe how I was, you know, even a year ago prior to that. Right? But I didn't have my awareness on so many different aspects of nutrition.
Dina Cataldo [00:21:30]:
And, you know, I've always looked at myself as pretty healthy. But there's so much to nutrition. And you had really, you know, you connected me with someone who really simplified it in in such an easy way and it made me think totally differently about it and I could now I have it as where it's sustainable. I'm not perfect by any sense any sense of the imagination, but it's so much better. Like, I can tell that my nutrition's better. I feel better about the food I'm eating. I eat so much cleaner. You know, I I went through a detox situation that we were talking about, like, after, I was doing some saunas and it was it was very clear that, like, my my muscles were detoxing things that have accumulated over the years.
Dina Cataldo [00:22:22]:
My awareness just wasn't on that. I had no clue. I mean, you just don't know what you don't know. And this particular experience allowed me to see so much of those things that I didn't know. And now I can pay attention and I can see, oh, wait a minute. Like, of course, those choices might lead to this particular outcome. I like, let's take a look at those. So that was one thing that and I don't know if that specifically answered your question, but that was something that was pretty surprising to me that there was just so much so much of a gap between where I thought I was and where I wanted to be, but I just didn't have the knowledge to get myself there on my own.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:23:05]:
Yeah. Well, and I think that, you know, diet is something that is quite complex. And there are so many people out there, especially in the cancer space, that is like, You have to eat this way. This is the one way that we heal cancer. And that is just not true. You know? And so what I do in my practice is really looking at, okay, there's some basic principles that we, you know, eliminate sugar, we really reduce carbohydrates, and start to focus on the quality of the foods that you're eating, making sure you're getting good protein because protein is the building blocks of our body. You know, doing healthy fats, very low carbohydrates, and then checking ketones and glucose. So you just start to get awareness about what your body how your body is responding to those foods and then also reducing things like lectins that are inflammatory in the body.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:24:04]:
But it's very personal, you know, and and some people would be like, oh, you have to do if you're gonna, you know, reduce carbohydrates, you have to do full ketosis. And I just don't think that that's the case, and we did not do that with you. You were in, like, a moderate ketosis because you were eliminating the carbohydrates. But I think this is one thing for people to know is that there's not one diet. And finding the diet that works for your body and what's beautiful and I love that you say that now is you feel better in your body with doing this work and that's how it should feel. So if you have been told you have to do a specific diet and you actually don't feel good on it, it's likely that's not what your body needs, and we're all unique. So, I love that you bring that up because you actually were eating quite well. Like, if you would look at your diet, people would say, oh, well, she's eating great.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:24:57]:
So why would you change anything there? And it's like, well, I'm like, if cancer is growing in the body, we've gotta shift some things. And initially, you were like, oh, wow. I don't know. And you're already you were thin, so you didn't wanna lose more weight. And there was kind of this adjustment of, like, okay. And what I love about you is you're just, like, alright. Fine. I'm, like you're, like, I'm not sure I buy into this.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:25:18]:
I'm gonna try it. And then you get to see by the data. You know what I'm saying? So when we start collecting data, we start to see that. But, you said something in this that I wanna circle back to that was beautiful in talking about your initial diagnosis and that it was the greatest gift. And I'm wondering, you know, I this is something that is really hard for a lot of people when they're going through it initially, and they're like, screw you with your gift. And, you know, and I'm not saying that to you, but but I I get it. You can't in the present moment. This is something that only comes in retrospect.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:25:56]:
But I'm wondering if you can speak to those people who are, like, I know people say that, but, like, what does that mean? Like, when you say that, what does that mean for you, Dena?
Dina Cataldo [00:26:07]:
Yeah. So first, I just wanna speak to if you're listening to this and you're going through this, like, have all the feelings. Like, you you don't need to think this is a gift right now. You you just feel the feelings. You do what you need to do right now to take care of yourself. Like, that's that's the first thing I wanna say because I certainly when I was first diagnosed at 29, I was upset, I was angry, I was confused, I didn't understand. And I was not in the place nor would I ever expect myself to be in the place of, oh my goodness, this is such a gift. I just would not ever expect that of myself or of anyone else.
Dina Cataldo [00:26:53]:
But what got me to the place of looking back in retrospect and seeing it as truly the gift that it was, was that it was the wake up call I needed to make a shift. And at the time, you know, I was a newer trial attorney. I was working 50 to 70 hours a week. I was, you know, you know, imagine your typical lawyer and like you were a doctor so you understand. Right? You're just your life is about work and that's where I was. My entire life was about work. Everything was focused on work. I I literally went on a date and fell asleep on my date.
Dina Cataldo [00:27:39]:
Like, I I mean, I mean, it was that kind of thing. Like, it was it was all about work, and that was that was my life. And when I look back, I can see how oh, wait a minute. When I got that diagnosis, it opened me up to seeing how there were things I was not doing. I wasn't going to yoga. The first time I went to yoga was after I was diagnosed and I was starting chemo. It was something that I felt called to and then someone invited me to and it was like, okay. I I'm gonna do this.
Dina Cataldo [00:28:12]:
And yoga is something that I just I have a love for yoga. It just it makes my body feel amazing. It makes my mind feel amazing. And I wouldn't have been introduced to that if it were not for the pause I needed to take during chemo. I also say chemo seemed like a vacation compared to my trial practice. So when I was in chemo, I was amazed. I didn't know my body could feel so calm. I didn't know I could feel so good Because my body was in constant survival mode.
Dina Cataldo [00:28:43]:
I was in fight or flight all of the time. I had adrenaline and all of those things running through my body. And when I had a moment, well, 3 months I was doing chemo to relax, I was like, this shouldn't be happening. Like, why am I so relaxed on chemo? Chemo should be horrible, but I am enjoying this. This is not right. And so I then was in a position to reflect and say, how do I transition my life so that I can be a lawyer but not feel so stressed out? And of course, that led me, you know, years later to becoming a coach for lawyers to help them in those same situations. But that was my life. And unless I had that wake up call, I was just gonna continue down that same path.
Dina Cataldo [00:29:28]:
Mhmm.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:29:29]:
Yeah. Well, and this brings me back to an episode that I just did with Tony Gallardi, who is the author of Breastquake. And she talks about this in her book, how women and, specifically, this book is about breast cancer, but that women often won't give themselves a break, but the breast cancer diagnosis forces them to stop and give their body a break. And it's so of course, this is not conscious. Right? But on a subconscious level, your body this was the wake up call, like you said, to stop and to and then I what I love is that you had the awareness during the chemo to say, wow. Wait. Why do I feel so relaxed while I'm getting chemo? Like because some people might just be like, okay. I don't know, and then keep going.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:30:29]:
But that awareness is what opened the gift. And you're absolutely right. I think that that cancer and this is actually why I love working with people who have cancer because it is such a big wake up call. And when you, you know, answer the call, that's what I love being part of is that when people can open and then say, okay, something needs to shift. And maybe I don't know what that needs, you know, what it is that needs to shift. But having someone to help me sort through that so that then I can make the changes that I need is just it's it's what this is all about. You cannot solve a cancer from the same level from which it was created. And I actually resonate with this whole idea of not taking a break because I remember when I had my first baby, I was a resident.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:31:25]:
I was just like a 1st year resident. Yeah. It was my 1st year of radiation oncology residency. And I was so excited to have a baby because I was gonna get a vacation. And I was like, wait, what is it? Like, what kind of twisted mind do I have that I think that having a baby is some kind of vacation? But, like, this is how I was thinking, so I absolutely get that. As, like, a driven professional, it's like we just push and push and push and never give ourselves the permission to take a break. So, that is so beautiful. And then I love that how you say, you know, feel all the feelings.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:32:05]:
And this is one of the things that we worked on too is being with your feelings. You already had done a lot of work in this area, but teaching you how to allow those emotions to flow through you and not to push them down and to have the experience. Like, cancer is traumatic. You know, Trauma can lead to cancer, but cancer, the diagnosis, and especially the way that it's treated in our society, can feel traumatic. Okay. So what I we we did all the things. So I said already that we did all the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual, but, like, we did a lot of detoxification. You talked about saunas.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:32:46]:
We did supplements for detox. We did emotional detox. You know, there's a lot of pieces to this. And, but I wanna get into the water fast. So this is a common thing. So, you know, those of my listeners who you've heard Christy's story before, Christy did a 17 day water fast. Dina and I also did when I say we, I'm like, I didn't do the water fast. I was with Dina in the experience of the water fast, but, Dina did a 14 day water fast.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:33:18]:
And we chose that length of time just based on your work since you, you know, could that's how much time you could take off for, you basically cannot work during a water fast, and then you need refeeding after the fast, and you have to take that time off work too. So logistically actually, the logistics of a water fast, I think, are one of the hardest pieces to figure out when to do this, how to, you know, carve out that time in your schedule. But I wonder if you can talk through the water fast, like, from the the when I brought it up, what were your first thoughts about that? And then to the experience of doing it, I'd love to hear you share about that.
Dina Cataldo [00:34:01]:
Yeah. And I specifically wanna speak to the logistics of it because I think that I even I am a coach and so I had to coach myself into doing it immediately because even my brain wanted to say, well, maybe I can't do it now. Maybe I should put it off till until there's this perfect time. No. You just have to make the decision that this is important to you. You make the space. I moved appointments. My clients were understanding.
Dina Cataldo [00:34:30]:
I didn't you have to be like, hey, I'm on a water fast. I just said, hey, I'm unavailable for these next 2 weeks, you know, just so you know, let's reschedule. Right? So if that gets in your head at all about this, don't let time get in the way of you and your healing. Like, you've just have to make a decision that this is important to you. So that's what I did. And, of course, all the feelings came up because I run a business and, of course, you know, if I'm not working, I don't make money. So so those kinds of feelings came up and I just had to say, look, this is important and I'm committed to this. How do I make this work? And so I just talked myself through it and I put the pieces together and I know I have that conversation with you, you know, about logistics and then we just made it happen.
Dina Cataldo [00:35:19]:
And then in terms of what came up for me not eating, I actually thought this was kind of funny and I think I shared this with you is like I thought this was gonna be like Buddha on a mountaintop. I was just gonna be at peace and it was gonna be just so I was just gonna feel so quiet and just, ah, like, you know, on this fast. That was not what happened at all. And, yeah, it was actually completely different. And that was something that I I was so happy that you were there to help guide me through that because I did need those little pep talks.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:36:00]:
Yeah. Well and, also, maybe you can talk about this, but one of the things as your body is healing in a water fast, physical pain can come up in the body because your body is repairing. So do you wanna talk about that? Because I remember that was something that was hard for you, because you were like, why am I feeling so much pain in my body? And, yeah.
Dina Cataldo [00:36:27]:
Yeah. So I didn't anticipate this, but I had, a rough I think the first, you know, the first couple of days were fine. I think I even was closing up some matters on on the last day or 2, but or the 1st day or 2 of of the fast. But what I noticed was that by day or night, 2 or 3, I couldn't sleep because I was in so much physical pain and I didn't understand it. I was trying to find I couldn't get comfortable. And I I would I talked to you about this and you would explain what was happening in my body and you gave me some suggestions and that worked. But I wasn't anticipating that my muscles were gonna be in such pain, like especially my hips and my legs, which makes sense because that's where, you know, my larger muscles were. And, it was pretty surprising because I I just yeah.
Dina Cataldo [00:37:22]:
It was just kind of surprising. Based on my expectations of what it would be, it was surprising.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:37:29]:
Well, and I remember this because you were, like, once you figured out the logistics and, actually, I love that you said that, that you just gotta make it happen. Because, initially, we were planning it a little bit further out, and then you were like, you know what? I just need to make this happen. And then we just did it, and it just all kinda happened quickly. And, you were like, I'm just gonna be, like, zen, and this is going to be, you know, a spiritual experience. And I'm like, it's gonna be a spiritual experience, but I don't know if it's gonna be zen. I was just like, but I don't wanna get you know, maybe your experience is gonna be super zen. It's just not typical. But so and and there were periods in there.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:38:08]:
There are periods in a water fast that can be zen, but there's definitely discomfort because there are couple things here. When you do a water fast, not only are you fasting from food, but you're fasting from work. Right? So and you just described you're a very driven, high achieving professional. And to put that all away in the 1st couple days, you're wrapping up some of your business that had to happen, but then I was like, okay. By day 3, you have to be done with all of that. And that was hard. Right? There's discomfort from really stepping away from the business and then also content. You know? People think that, like, oh, I'll just, like, watch movies and, you know, do scroll on Instagram.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:38:51]:
But when you do a water fast for healing, it's really a deprivation of more than just food. It's a deprivation of content. It's really resting so that your body is using that time to heal itself. Right? And just physiologically, I wanna explain to people what happens is that once you get through the 1st couple days and your body switches into ketosis, it goes from using sugar or, glucose as fuel to using ketones. It also starts eating your cells. So it starts eating fat cells as fuel, and our toxins in our body are stored in the fat. So, actually, as you're getting rid of those toxins, they have to flush out of your system through the water and then, you know, through your urine. And that can cause, like Gina was describing, this discomfort, physical discomfort, because you are eliminating toxins from your body.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:39:52]:
And this is one thing that makes me upset because there's a couple of people in the fasting space, doctors, who say fasting shouldn't be uncomfortable. And I'm like, well, if you're doing prolonged water fasting, it is uncomfortable because your body is uncomfortable because your body is eliminating toxins, and that can cause physical discomfort in the body. And my experience is that it does do that. So so, basically, you're eliminating toxins from your fat as you're eating the fat, but then your body starts preferentially eating any diseased cells in the body, which cancer you know, those cells are not normal. And so your body is going to preferentially eat those cells. This is called autophagy. And this is actually the magic of what's happening with, a water fast is you're eating the cells that are not healthy in your body preferentially. And so, anyway, this is a process that you're you know, it can cause physical discomfort.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:40:57]:
It causes mental discomfort because we're used to consuming so much information or doing so many things. And I remember for you, just going outside and sitting in the sun was like an activity, you know. And when I do these when I supervise these fasts for people, we're in contact every day. So I'm monitoring your ketones, your blood sugar, we're doing weights, we're checking in to see how you're tolerating and and doing that. And we also check labs before you start to make sure all of your electrolytes and everything are normal. But it's like a complete shift of, like, just taking a shower is exhausting. Like, oftentimes, people need help to take a shower and wash their hair. So, yeah.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:41:44]:
I I think that this is the thing is just setting the expectation is that this is uncomfortable to go through this process. And I'm wondering if you can speak to just, you know, initially, there was that discomfort in the pain. But as it went along, did you lose hunger? Like, this is one thing that people are really afraid of is, am I gonna be hungry for the whole time? Or or what it what was that like for you with the food?
Dina Cataldo [00:42:07]:
I was pretty fascinated by this because I didn't have cravings. I didn't desire food as if, like, I oh my gosh. You gotta keep me away from the kitchen. Like, it just wasn't anything I wanted. And that was kind of surprising to me. It was just, no, this is just what I'm doing for the next 2 weeks. Yeah. And I felt really good about it.
Dina Cataldo [00:42:34]:
I think my mom felt bad because she was eating in front of me. And I was like, yeah, I, you know, I actually don't desire any of that. Like, I've I'm fine. And I I felt like the last week, I think it was the last few days because my brain was anticipating the end, that's when it was where it was interesting. Not that I was gonna eat anything, but that was when I think I got the a okay to, like, look at things on my phone. And so I started just scrolling food porn. Yeah. I'm not eating.
Dina Cataldo [00:43:04]:
I'm like, I wouldn't even eat any of these things. Right? Like, it's like sugar. It's like crap food. But it was just fun, you know, watching watching this stuff, and, and that was really where I was at. Like, oh, okay. I'm anticipating what I'm gonna eat. I knew exact this was funny. I remember telling you, I knew exactly when I wanted to eat the 1st day I was gonna eat, and then it wasn't available.
Dina Cataldo [00:43:28]:
Like, I didn't have the pasture raised, you know, organic eggs that I wanted. And I like and I cried because I was like, I can't eat these. I hate it. So it's just kind of funny, like, the expectations are our mindsets for how things are gonna go, and we get attached to how they're gonna go and then then the emotions that can come up. But that was really around food. That was what came up for me, especially towards the last couple days.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:44:04]:
Yeah. That's so funny because I remember that. You'd been, like, just so resolved and, like, so just like a rock through the whole thing. And then the day of refeeding, you you're, like, leave me a message, and you're crying just like, I can't have the eggs. I can't have the eggs. And I was like, oh, Dina. It's okay. Like, I but I know what that's like.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:44:27]:
You know, that that that refeeding, you're like, you've just been looking forward to that first meal, and then it was like, I forget what happened with your mom getting the wrong one. Eggs or something.
Dina Cataldo [00:44:36]:
New eggs. Yeah.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:44:39]:
But and also the food porn is consistent. So that's also something that other clients have said where they get kind of obsessed with looking at food. But they're not gonna eat it, but it's just something really fascinating about looking at it. So that's so so funny. So and then the refeeding process, just so for people who are listening, is, like, then when you start eating, you have to go very slow. And I think for you, we had maybe 5 or 6 days of refeeding after the 14 days of fasting. And during those days, you also can't be doing, you know, normal activities because you're still quite weak, as you're kinda coming back online. But okay.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:45:19]:
So we finished the water fast, and then this is basically towards the end of our 12 weeks together. And your, mammogram comes up and you're gonna go back to see, and maybe not see the surgeon, but go have the mammogram. So walk us through all of that.
Dina Cataldo [00:45:36]:
It was so interesting. It happened exactly how I thought it was gonna happen because I had actually imagined this earlier on when we had started working together. I was, like, this is what's gonna happen. I'm gonna go to the the place to get the mammogram. And then they're not gonna believe it, and so they're gonna have to get a close-up image. So I'll have another image. And then they're gonna call me back, and then they're gonna tell me I don't have anything anymore, like, it's gone. And they're gonna be confused.
Dina Cataldo [00:46:09]:
And that's exactly what happened. So I went I went there the day of, and, that exact process happened. I was called in. They called me in a second time because they needed to get, close-up image. And then the doctor, different doctor, not a surgeon, just, you know, the person who goes through the mammograms. And apparently, these are most visible on mammograms and that's why it's we did the mammogram to for the testing. So we go in and he just says, well, you don't have any calcifications. They're gone.
Dina Cataldo [00:46:44]:
And I said, yeah. And I said and I said, hey. Awesome. Give me a high five. Right? So I was like, and they were so confused because I'm sure nobody ever is like, hey. Give me a high five in there.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:46:56]:
And I'm like, give me
Dina Cataldo [00:46:57]:
a high five. And so, he gave me a high five very tentatively, and and and I I said, yeah. I I did a 14 day water fast. I worked with you. You know? And I was saying, like, you know, what I did. And he was like, he just kinda looked at me like it wasn't registering, and he just said, well, maybe we got it all. That's what he said. He said, maybe we got it all.
Dina Cataldo [00:47:20]:
And I'm like, what? You just you know I haven't had any treatment. Right? Like, zero treatment. And and it just didn't register. And I kept talking, and he he looked at me again, and he said, can you can you tell me again what you did? And so I walked him through it again and I told him about your podcast and Betty, I just don't think it registered and I understand because I don't think that we're taught that it's even possible to cure cancer without having some sort of Western medical intervention. And, you know, as he left the room, I turned to the gal who who had given me my mammogram and and she said, I believe in the power of fasting. And she gave me a hug. Yeah. It was really beautiful.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:48:05]:
Yeah. No. I remember you telling me about that encounter, and you're like, I knew that they were gonna be confused. And you're like, he was definitely confused. Like, what just happened? So I love that. And it's such a beautiful testament to the work that you did. You know, you did this. And, you know, it was not just the water fast.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:48:29]:
It was all that work that you did. We worked a lot on the diet and in changing with the supplements and detoxification and all of the work. So I just have to say, I'm so proud to be your doctor. Like, I'm so proud of what you have accomplished and that I love that you have come on here to share with others what's possible because this these are the stories that we're not told. We're not told that this is possible. But, you know, you're an example, and you also have changed. Right? So even just in and since the time that we've met, you've radically shifted a lot of areas of your life, and you'd already done work before then. So I think this is, you know, an example of where change is required, and you embrace that.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:49:21]:
And so I'm so grateful to you. I'm so grateful to have been on your team and to have witnessed what you've accomplished.
Dina Cataldo [00:49:31]:
Thank you.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:49:34]:
So what because
Dina Cataldo [00:49:36]:
You know, I just it's something that kept coming up for me here is the lack of connection that we have to not only ourselves. You know, most of us are do not have that connection, but to the foods we eat, to the water that we drink. You know, we take it for granted. You know, the sunlight, you know, stepping outside and enjoying, like, a breeze on our face. Like, we, over time, have lost that connection. And I think part of what the gift of this particular diagnosis was was helping me reconnect with those elements, those aspects that of life that over time you just become so accustomed to that they seem, you know, like, they're always gonna be there. Right? It's kind of, you know, so to be able to create that relationship, that connection again with the foods, with, you know, because it's not just food, it's they were it was an animal, right? That not just water, it's it's life because we're made of water. And when we think about these different things, I think it's really important that that that aspect of it I wanted to highlight because I I just felt like that was such a gift for me is reconnecting with those elements.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:50:57]:
That is really beautiful. And I I really think that it is. Like, part of what's making us sick is the disconnection. We're disconnected with ourselves, and we're disconnected with nature and what feeds us in all the ways. So that's so beautiful. So, Dina, if we have listeners who are attorneys that are looking for a coach or whatever, please tell us where they can find you so that people can find out more about your work because you're doing quite extraordinary work as well.
Dina Cataldo [00:51:26]:
Thank you. So I have a podcast called Be A Better Lawyer, and you can listen to that. And if you go to my website, dinacottaldo.com, I always have something there, whether it's a master class or, you know, learning how to work with me further, you can you can learn all of that there.
Dr. Katie Deming [00:51:46]:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. It's been a privilege to chat with you here.
Dina Cataldo [00:51:51]:
Thank you. Same.
DISCLAIMER:
The Born to Heal Podcast is intended for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for seeking professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Individual medical histories are unique; therefore, this episode should not be used to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease without consulting your healthcare provider.