Dr. Katie Deming [00:00:02]:
You're listening to the Born to Heal podcast, and I'm your host, doctor Katie Deming. After 2 decades of practicing as an oncologist and caring for thousands of patients, I've seen firsthand how our health care system places obstacles in your path to true healing. My guests and I will bridge the worlds of western medicine and alternative healing to help you achieve optimal health. Expect to uncover new insights, share a few laughs, and maybe even shed some tears along the way. But most of all, we'll learn how to heal from within together. So let's dive into today's episode. I am excited today to be joined by doctor Tony Gallardi. Tony, welcome.Dr. Katie Deming [00:00:44]:
It is my excitement

Dr Toni Galardi [00:00:46]:
to be here. I love it.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:00:47]:
I've been waiting to talk to you, so this is gonna be really fun, I think, for both of us. Tony, I wanted to start just to have you tell us a little bit about who you are and, you know, how you came into the work that you're doing and specifically talking a little bit about your book, Breastquake, and how you came into working with that doing that work.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:01:09]:
You know, everything in both my personal and professional life really allowed me to take the kind of leap of faith that I took when I was diagnosed with breast cancer myself. I had written a book called The Lifequake Phenomenon, and it was all about helping people face catastrophic crisis and get out of the addiction to crisis before making changes. And my work is as a career purpose, helping people find their souls. So I'm not in the functional medicine field, but I had been studying functional medicine since the age of 30, and had gone through my own experience with Hashimoto's and a bunch of other immune related things that I had gone to Optima Health Institute 30 years before my breast cancer diagnosis and had seen people through detoxification having miraculous recovery from cancer, which was not my diagnosis. When I felt this lump in my breast, and I thought, okay, I've got to, you know, do the process here, went through the mammogram, and then the ultrasound, and then the biopsy. And what was the turning point for me making the decision to do this completely holistically was the breast cancer surgeon here, Doctor. LeBlanc, who's wonderful, pointed to the scan and said, Oh my God, your tumor is in the shape of a heart, a cracked heart, where 2 tiny tumors had merged together. And I thought and it was on my on my in my left breast over my heart.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:02:43]:
And I thought, okay. This is emotional because I I was gluten free, don't drink, you know, all kinds of, you know, like a really healthy diet, exercise, you name it. Normal weight person. And I and because I'm a psychotherapist and Yumiyun trained, I look at shadow. I look at what is it that's disowned? What is out of balance in your life, and started doing an excavation and just started interviewing women who had I interviewed everybody. I interviewed people who had done traditional lumpectomies because I had a stage 1 leading to stage 2, invasive ductal carcinoma. And so I wanted to be able to make an even handed decision about this. And in the end, what made the most sense to me was to get to the root of what this issue what caused breast cancer for me, and do that excavation first, and to see if in doing that, this could get reversed.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:03:39]:
And it was. In 6 months' time, it was gone.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:03:42]:
I love this. So and and tell me, because this is one of the things that I think people get really nervous about when they think about approaching healing cancer, specifically from a natural perspective. They're like, well, if I had, let's say, you know, Hashimoto's, or even though that's, like, serious, people are like, I'm not gonna die of this. They think, okay. I have time to figure out a way to do this maybe more naturally. Right. But I'm wondering for you, you know, did you make some kind of agreement with your doctors where you're like, I really want to do this naturally. Will you give me a certain amount of time? I'm just wondering if we can walk people through what that was like for

Dr Toni Galardi [00:04:21]:
for you. Absolutely. So the first question I recommend people ask, and I I talk about it in BreastQuake, is, is this slow growing? 85% of breast tumors are slow growing. It's a very small percentage that are either triple negative or, inflammatory in nature. Okay? So most of the time, but we need to find that out, you know, there's debate in the holistic world as to whether you should do a biopsy because it can release cancer cells. But my feeling was I needed to know. I wanted to know how much time I had. And so when I said, Is this slow growing? And she said, Yes.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:05:00]:
And I said, So can you because she wanted to rush me into an MRI. And I said, can you give me 3 months? And let me see what I can do. And and then and we can reconvene. And she said, yeah. We can do that. So that's when I went full, full board on doing detoxification. Vacation. You know, I did SEAC tea, which is wonderful.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:05:21]:
There's a 100 years of data on that particular product alone in reversing all kinds of cancers. I did coffee enemas. That's not for everybody. But I wanted to, you know, to stimulate glutathione in my liver because much of this can be an overloaded liver and colon. We're being exposed with environmental toxins all the time, which converts into xenoestrogens in the body, which is the bad estrogen. Right? But not all estrogen is alike. And that's something I also, you know, wanted to educate people with in the book. So in that 3 month period, I started vitamin C IVs and did because there's tremendous research with doctor Reardon on he has compelling data on how efficacious, of vitamin CIVs, high dose vitamin CIVs are on breast cancer.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:06:12]:
And within 3 months, I went and did the MRI, you know, and it had reduced by 70%. Now here's what's an important piece that I had to do some research to really get the data on, is that, and this is what my breast cancer surgeon told me, they can't tell the difference between dead cells and live cells. You know, an MRI does not does not, for the most part, give them an indication, which is why when they do radiation after, you know, after the lumpectomy, if it's an early stage breast cancer, If they do radiation because it sweeps it, it makes sure that it's dead, and they wait 6 months, right, until they know and then look to see, because we don't know whether it's dead or alive. So I could no longer feel this tumor. It was it was no longer there. So in my own personal opinion, it was already probably dead, and what was left, the the 30% that was left, may have just been dead cells. There have been Nathan Crane on his summit talked about a woman for whom she got talked into having a mastectomy, even though she had done holistic stuff prior. When they looked at, examined the tumor from in the actual breast tissue, the cells were dead, but you couldn't tell that from the map, from from the MRI.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:07:34]:
So my feeling was that it was it was gone, you know, that what was left was just the dead cells. So I continued doing detoxification, emotional work. I looked at childhood trauma that I hadn't cleaned up from growing up in a dysfunctional family, and all the things that and trauma losses in the past 5 years that had happened one after the other that I didn't have time to process. I did all that work, spiritual work, meditation, all kinds of things that I included in my excavation. And within 3 months when we retested, it was gone completely. That's what the ultrasound showed.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:08:13]:
Awesome. Well and this, I think, is helpful for people just to think about a way, if if they want to pursue a natural approach, of how to do that with your doctors and with their you know, we you don't have to go behind your doctor's back. Although, some some people feel like, you know, they're, oh, no. My doctor wouldn't trust find a doctor who will work with you. But what you just described, I also just did with a client who they were recommending a mastectomy. She had actually metastatic breast cancer already Mhmm. And had been in remission for 2 years and had spread to her lungs and everything was clear, but she had a new DCIS that arose in the same breast that she'd already had a lumpectomy in. And so their standard was to recommend a mastectomy.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:09:07]:
And so she was planning for a mastectomy and on the path to go see a plastic surgeon to talk about reconstruction, and she ended up scheduling with me. And I was like, wait. Time out. According to according to the western paradigm, you have incurable stage 4 disease. According to what they believe, why would they take your breast off for a DCIS, a stage 0? No. It's because So so I asked her. I said, you know, is your surgeon open to you trying? You know, give us 3 months. Like, just 3 months, and then you can reimage and see what things look like at that point.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:09:43]:
And so we did that and did, you know, the things that you're talking about. So my whole practice is about this. We're deep you know, calming the nervous system, detoxing the body, nourishing the body with the things that it needs, which many of us are not getting in this day and age, and then aligning spiritually. And she ended up having her mammogram just about 4 weeks ago now, and they can't find anything.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:10:05]:
Wow.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:10:06]:
So I think this idea, like and this is the thing where I think holistic treatments are the most helpful is if you can do it upfront before you get into doing the chemo. Because if we think about cancer as being an imbalance of increased toxicity in the body and lowered immune function for whatever reason, whether it's emotional stress or mental stress or not getting the right nutrients, when we start to put chemotherapy or radiation in our system, you actually worsen that balance that you're actually worsening the issue, and then it can be even harder to do the holistic stuff. So I love this No question. That you're bringing it up about the option of saying, okay, do I have time? Can I explore another way before we jump into conventional therapy? And there's another issue,

Dr Toni Galardi [00:10:57]:
which is sometimes, because I I know of one person, that this was the case, who had the lumpectomy, but did not do holistic treatment. Okay? Just did nothing. And so, therefore, then, the traditional medical community will come out and say alternative treatments don't work. Right? And had she done followed up with alternative treatment, that she because it came back. You know, it came back. So there is a big controversy right now. I don't know if you know about Elle Macpherson's book coming out in November about I mean, they're skewering her in the press, you know, about the fact that she didn't do traditional radiation and chemo. She actually had a lumpectomy, but she put a team together and could afford to do that.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:11:45]:
So what most women think is I either have to do the full on, you know, lumpectomy radiation and or and or chemo, whatever, or holistic, total, you know. And there are lots of options, lots of ways to go here, you know, depending on what you can tolerate in terms of your own, like, ability to do stress management techniques, you know. And look at, like, a whole chapter in my book is on your career because that can drive the problem. And if you don't address that because there are careers that make you more vulnerable, you know, to this to this cancer, specifically to breast cancer. And, in fact, my gynecologist said to me because I brought the book in to her, and, after the whole after I went through the whole thing and reversed it, and she said, don't tell me that doctors are I said, they're pretty vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. They have one of the highest suicide rates.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:12:41]:
Like twice as likely as, you know, and any woman, by the way, in an administrative position who's got a lot of responsibilities. We care for people. Women care. So when we have to fire someone, for example, and you're an administrative physician, or someone if you have a private practice, you know, as a as a physician, and you've got all kinds of problems going on with your staff. All of that's extremely stressful because we care. And breast cancer, some of it, is overextending. You know, on a body psychology level, it's about not having great boundaries and overextending yourself to others. I was the eldest of 4 children, you know, and was often, you know, the one in charge.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:13:21]:
So that became a modus operandi, you know, in terms of how I operated in my life, is always overextending to others.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:13:29]:
Yeah. And, actually, I wanna come back to this point because I think my specialties, so in radiation oncology, was breast and gynecologic cancers. Oh, wow. And then now in my current practice, I do see people with other types of cancers. And I did before as well, but my primary practice was those 2. I this is a real, issue, the whole boundaries issue and the overgiving and the people pleasing and all that. So I wanna come back to that, but I also wanna speak to what you just brought up with Elle Macpherson Mhmm. You know, interviews and and books.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:14:01]:
And and I actually just recorded a video for social media about this, and I think this is the thing. And, actually, I was really frustrated by the doctor's responses. It's like, it's okay for people to share their story. There is not one way to treat cancer. Every single person is an individual, and you brought up a good point that maybe you do surgery, and maybe you choose not to do the other things. Or maybe for you, it feels right to do the radiation. I don't I say this all the time. I don't have an opinion about what is right for your body, but what I would like people to know is what is this what are the statistics? What is the data? How do I make good decisions so I understand if I do this treatment, these are the potential benefits, and these are the potential downsides.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:14:50]:
And if you don't do it I love that you brought up the whole thing of not doing anything, that the western doctors, they think it's all a big black box anyway. And they're like, they don't do treatment. This person's gonna come back, and they're gonna have a recurrence, which you're absolutely right. If you don't do anything different, nothing is going to change, and that it is likely that this is going to progress. So you can't not do the treatments and not do anything and expect a different result than what your body is already doing. If you have cancer, it means that your body is an environment that is allowing that to develop. So something needs to change if you're gonna get a different result. And so I think it's this piece of where and and this is why I think there's such a disconnect, right, between the Western community and then the holistic practices.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:15:40]:
And then also the other thing is now that I'm in the holistic space, it's a little bit like the wild, wild west. Right? Because then you go outside of the protocols, which are, you know, I think people in the holistic space are like, well, we don't wanna just say this is the right protocol for everyone with this disease. But then it gets confusing. Right? Because patients are trying to determine, well, how do I put together a team and how do I make decisions about my care? And it's very confusing because, actually, a lot of the people in this space are saying completely conflicting things. And so I think people get overwhelmed and then have a hard time making any decisions at all.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:16:18]:
Yes.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:16:19]:
And I think that

Dr Toni Galardi [00:16:20]:
Yes.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:16:21]:
If I could give advice to people about what are the important things to be thinking about is that if you have cancer, you need to figure out what are the ways that you can detoxify your life physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually, And how can you start to get the nourishment that you need? And that can be as simple as, like, loving relationships and self love, self compassion, eating good foods that are not processed. You know, it's just, like, so basic, but I'm like, if you could just get that, like, those are the pieces that start to make us well. And it's less complicated than I think people are so, you know, focused on it. It's only this way. This protocol of this you have to do it this way. And it's like, no. You're an individual. And I think, you know, if you can use those principles when you start to look at other, you know, practitioners and and say, okay.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:17:16]:
Does this make sense to me? Like, does this feel aligned? And then and then following it. So, anyway, I just wanted to speak to that a little bit. And also with Elle Macpherson, you know, I'm confused actually whether it's DCIS, because in some places, it says stage 0, and then other places talking about HER2 new positive, which HER2 new positive is only reported in invasive disease. And in that case, then chemo would have been recommended. So there's some disconnect, but even if she had

Dr Toni Galardi [00:17:43]:
She said she had invasive ductile. So I thought it was I thought the article that I read said stage 1. Oh, so who knows? Okay. Yeah. So anyway but the but

Dr. Katie Deming [00:17:53]:
the thing is is that, say it's stage 1, invasive ductile, with HER-twoneu positive, which is, I think, what the doctors are getting so upset about that it's irresponsible for her to say that she for you know, did not receive conventional therapy. It's like, but she did. She whatever she said she did, she did. So this is her story. And you know what? She gets to share it, and that's okay. And she put together a team to do this, and we shouldn't be skewering her. We should be asking, what'd you do? Elle, what did you do? You know? But that's just it's so funny how the immediate response is like, oh, no. No.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:18:29]:
We shouldn't be talking about that. But it's like, no. I think that's what we should be talking about. One of

Dr Toni Galardi [00:18:34]:
the criticisms of, you know, that because I looked at 3 different articles here, you know, about this and about her book coming out, is that she had the money to put this kind of team together. And what was frustrating for me about this was I wanted to just go, you know, there's a best selling book out there right now that can show you how easy that just Essiak Tea, for those who can afford to have a team that they put together. Not everybody can afford, you know, holistic medicine. You know, going to see a holistic physician can be very expensive, and therefore, there are some other things if you've got time. If you have a slow growing tumor, if it's small enough, you have got time to do things that will detoxify your body, like, you know, certain teas and certain supplements. And we are living in a time now for everybody. I don't care if you have cancer or not. We need to be detoxing our liver on a regular basis.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:19:32]:
Seriously. The research I'm getting now, because there's a group called Moms Across America who had me come speak, and they really, you know, educated me on glyphosate exposure. How high in this country, not in Europe, they've outlawed it in the food and in the air and in the farming. But here in this country, we are just inundated with plastics in our food, plastics in our water, as well as glyphosate poisoning from things like Roundup. So as just a matter of force, to keep your body healthy, you have to be doing things that clean out your liver. And so there are some simple things that I talk about in this book that that that are not expensive to do, you know? Yeah. With somebody who's got stage 3 or stage 4, there is a doctor in Santa Monica I went to who's an ozone specialist. You know, he's an MD who does ozone, and he told me a story of a stage 4 breast cancer patient came to him.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:20:28]:
She had nothing to lose. They really didn't have anything more for her, but they could give her, like, chemo that would extend her life for a few months. It was in her pelvis. It was everywhere. And she said she thought she had nothing to lose. So she did ozone with him, high dose ozone, for 4 months, 16 weeks, twice twice a week. And it completely, completely the body healed itself, according to him. So who knows? You know? There are all kinds of of of things, but not everybody can go that that route.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:20:59]:
And that's why I wanted to to distill it down to what can people do that's not expensive if they don't have the money to see a holistic doctor.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:21:08]:
Yeah. No. Well, and even just water fasting, prolonged water fasting is

Dr Toni Galardi [00:21:13]:
That's right. Yeah. Remarkable. And intermittent fasting.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:21:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. But but in terms of curing cancer

Dr Toni Galardi [00:21:20]:
Oh, yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:21:21]:
Prolonged water fasting. Yes. Both of my clients who've had radical remissions and their tumors disappear without what you would consider adequate treatment, conventionally, both of them did prolonged water fasting. So there's absolutely a lot of things that you can do naturally. And then, also, you know, I think this idea that there's just, like, one way like, ozone is one thing, and then we've got hyper there's so many different things. And the truth is you don't have to do all of it too. I think that's the one thing that people get overwhelmed, and they're like, you know, clients who are working with me every day, they're sending me all of these different articles. And I'm like Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:21:58]:
Let's slow it down. Let's focus on one thing at a time. And, you know, it's you don't have to do everything out there. There's so many things and and really putting together a protocol that works for you. But absolutely. And I do think that, you know, conventional treatment is also expensive. You know, insurance pays for it, but a course of radiation is, like, you know, tens of 1,000 of dollars. And it's, you know, when you have insurance that'll pay for it, that's helpful.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:22:24]:
But these are not cheap treatments either. The Journal of the American Medical Association,

Dr Toni Galardi [00:22:29]:
JAMA. Okay? I put it in my book. It literally came out just before my book. I actually pulled the book back from the publisher and put this in. Quote from them. This is from a very traditional journal, right, stating they are concerned about what it is costing to treat, and this is obviously traditional, treatment of breast cancer for women, that the cost is going you know, not everybody has great coverage. You know, some women have catastrophic coverage, 15,000 upfront, that they have to put out, number 1. Right? So they're concerned.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:23:03]:
They said that it is costing women more to get treat breast cancer than the combination of colorectal, lung, and prostate cancer combined. This came out in JAMA. This concern, I thought, wow, that's great. I mean, they're actually seeing that this is getting to be really a very expensive kind of thing for women. And there are other that's all I'm saying, is that there are other ways. If you have a slow growing tumor and it's small, okay, you have time. If you can say to your doctor, Can you give me 3 months? And by the way, so there's another piece to this. There can be gender bias.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:23:41]:
One of the things in interviewing a 100 women that I was looking to see how many women who had male doctors had doctors, breast cancer surgeons I'm talking about, who were, supportive of them. And I found that that although, you know, if you see a female just like if you see a male, this is what the tool they have for you is surgery. Right? That's what they're trained to do is surgery. However, female breast cancer surgeons seem to be much more collaborative about it, at least. I had 2 women I interviewed said that their, was it invasive ductal or what's the one that starts with an L? Invasive lobular. Lobular. Thank you. They had lobular, and they were told by their surgeon, You're going to die if you don't do this.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:24:28]:
If you don't have the surgery, you're gonna die. Well, I didn't have that experience, you know. And I don't know, but there can be this gender thing that happens between a male doctor and a female patient if you're not passive and compliant.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:24:40]:
Yeah. I don't know. So I I would say, just from my colleagues, you know, I I I I appreciate, actually, female surgeons because they they think about how you're gonna live with the aesthetics of the breast surgery. And but I I didn't see that as much in my practice with male surgeons pushing, you know, treatments and that kinda thing. I think but I think it brings up the point that your relationship with your doctor, whether it's male or female, is really important having one that's collaborative. If you're if you're interested in this approach. Right? If you're just willing you know, if you're just gonna go forward with what's recommended because that's what makes you feel more comfortable, then you're not necessarily worried about this as much. But I think if you're interested in pursuing holistic options, either complimentary, like, alongside conventional 3 therapies, or to kind of try them upfront before, you wanna have a doctor who's gonna listen to you.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:25:42]:
And I think the best way for me, I always think about, you wanna talk to other people and find out their doctors. Like, if they like their doctors, and also who the doctors particular bias of men, although it was definitely earlier in terms of mastectomy versus lumpectomy when that but that's been, like, now, you know, 19 eighties or something where we saw this big you know, but it was mostly male surgeons at that time anyway. I wanna so I wanna go to the question about boundaries Uh-huh. And, you know, this people pleasing, and and maybe that there is something to this idea of with breast cancer that that's, you know, an issue that that is is a common thread for a lot of women. So I'm wondering, can you talk to us about this? Tell us, you know, what you want people to know, and and and what what about that have you noticed and did you write about

Dr Toni Galardi [00:26:39]:
in your book? So, yeah. So there is, in the women I interviewed, and a lot of women who are breast cancer you know, celebrities who've shared about their breast cancer journey, about how they had to learn, about having better boundaries, that they were overgiving everywhere, and taking care of everybody. And so there's that whole emotional piece as a psychotherapist that I work on with my clients, you know, about how do they nourish themselves, how do they begin to put themselves first because it's critical to their healing. But there's another piece that goes even before that. And that is, what is your relationship with your breasts? And that's why the first chapter of this book, for me, was about me looking at, wow, I had to really look at how much judgment since I developed breasts very quickly as a young teenager. And, you know, you have boys doing cat calls and construction workers doing cat calls, and you develop a self consciousness if you're big busted. Then there were women who I interviewed who felt judgmental of their breasts as teenagers because they were small breasted. I felt insecure about that.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:27:53]:
And so there's all of this that goes into, like, this is this is all, you know, if we're 70% water, and Amoto's work on how we talk to water can create toxins in water yeah. They've done that. They've shown that through Kurland Photography. Right? If we're 70% water, how we talk to our body or think about our body, our body image? And so one of the things I started doing immediately was self love, physically touching my breasts every night, and I still do it, loving them, you know, and giving them the neglect I realized I had. You know, we tend to think of breasts as something that nurtures the world, you know, that our children, our, you know, whatever, men in our life, if you're gay or straight, you know, it's part of the sexual piece as well. But how many women really think about, How do I feel about my breasts with me? How do I nurture my breasts? How do I appreciate them? How do I love them? Just the way they are. You know? So that seemed important to me. You know, that's part of the boundaries.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:29:01]:
But, you know, it's like, if I love myself and I love my breasts more, I'm gonna be just naturally wanting to make decisions based on that, learning how to say no, basically.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:29:11]:
Yes. Well and, actually, this is really important because one of the things and, actually, when I was early in my career, so I practiced conventional radiation oncology for 20 years. But early in my career, I was like, if I was diagnosed with cancer or breast cancer, I'd be like, bilateral mastectomy. Like, take them off. I don't care. Like, I don't and I I've seen so many women do that where they just they're like, oh, well, these are just problems. I don't need them because I'm not breastfeeding anyone anymore. Just take them.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:29:44]:
Right? And it really took me, you know, practicing for a long time and then seeing the ramifications of those decisions that, like, your body hasn't failed you. Your breasts haven't failed you. Like and this idea of loving them actually, you know and I'm wondering if you can speak to this and because sometimes I think it's hard for people, if they have breast cancer, to love their breast because at in at some level and not all women, but this is something that I've seen is they feel like their breasts have betrayed them with the development of the cancer, and that it's hard to love it because of that it's allowed this to grow. And I'm just wondering what your perspective is on that.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:30:31]:
So, again, because I'm Jungian, we look at shadow. And so what is how do you actually feel about the ugliest parts of yourself emotionally? How do you feel about your character flaws? Okay? Part of the healing when I take people on a journey in in this world, in this realm, is about helping people to really embrace, own, first of all, their shadow aspects and embrace them and begin to love them. Because inside of them, like addiction, for example, how many alcoholics, I don't know how many you've seen in your practice, who are in recovery will tell you alcohol was a gift because it took them to their spirituality. It took them the addiction took them to their knees, and they then had to reach out to God. Okay? So the same thing is true with with an illness like like cancer diagnosis, any cancer diagnosis. There's a gift and I made that declaration, like, immediately. I said to myself, I am going to find the gift in this. I am going to as scary as it feels, this journey I'm going on, I'm going to get everything I can.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:31:41]:
You know, Ram Dass once said, don't waste your suffering. Right? Get everything you can from difficult things that come to you. So this is part of it. It's like, can you love this thing that feels like like life threatening? That feels so life threatening. Can I love it? You know? And that's a journey. It doesn't happen overnight. It happens through doing a lot. We do a lot of deep somatic work around this.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:32:09]:
Because, again, this is a in my world, this is how I look at it, it's a symptom. The tumor is a symptom. As you said in your own website, you know, you go to the root of it. We wanna see what the root of the cancer is. So we wanna get to the root of it, because there's the gift there. That's where the gold is, you know? Yeah.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:32:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. And the way that it's funny because I feel like the gift can be triggering for people that it's a gift that most of my clients, they get there, but it may be, at first, they're like, well, screw you for saying this is a gift because you you don't like that whole thing and but the way that I what's that?

Dr Toni Galardi [00:32:49]:
You can't do that initially with somebody. I mean, I could do it with myself, but with a client, we have to go through the grief. There's

Dr. Katie Deming [00:32:55]:
Right. Exact so that's what I'm that's what I'm saying is that the ones who are feeling betrayed, you know, aren't there to get to that place. And the one the one the way that I talk about it is, you know, that cancer is an opportunity to look deeper, to look underneath, like, what is going on? It's brought about this crisis so that you can see it, and you can heal it. And I and I love actually, I love the way you're talking about the shadow aspects and, you know, really accepting all of the parts and loving all of our parts. And and this brings me to a question that I has been coming up with clients that I wanna get your perspective on. And that is that so in the, you know, holistic space and where people are really clear on that our thoughts create and that they're very intentional about holding thoughts that are positive for their healing, envisioning their healing. One of the things that I see is people get so caught in staying in this positivity that they totally avoid doing the work that is necessary to actually work through the grief, to get to a true place where you actually feel at peace and can be positive no matter what. And there's this pushback of, like, well, I can't you know, so I ask it's like, you know, what are you afraid of? Like, what is the fear? And if we can work towards having peace with whatever your fears are, when you find that peace in your biggest fear, the healing happens naturally.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:34:39]:
Right? And so I'm just wondering what your perspective is. And, obviously, like, this is deep work, but this is something that I see a lot. And people are like, well, what you're saying doesn't fit with what I know about positive thinking and all this. But what I see is a disconnect where people are saying something, but underneath, emotionally, they've got this turmoil and they're disconnected from it, and they're ignoring it. And then you never really get to the other side when you stay in that space. And I don't know if that makes sense. Does that make sense?

Dr Toni Galardi [00:35:09]:
Of course, it makes sense. Of course, it makes sense. 1 of my supervisors early in my career when we when we were talking about the whole new spiritual psychology that was coming in, and he said, doing affirmation work without doing the emotional work is like putting cream and these were his words, putting cream over shit. You know? And I never forgot that, that you have to be you know, so the the question I would for your listeners, that if you are newly diagnosed, there is a way to be able to do a breath work exercise of going in and asking asking your body, what is this here for me? How is this here for me? What am I needing to discover? What am I needing to look at perhaps that I haven't taken the time to to look at? And so for me, it was like trauma, like stuck, you know, a breakup that I then left, you know, California and moved to North Carolina. Didn't process enough because I had another I had a book coming out. So I didn't do this deep processing. So what's the heartbreak that's locked in your body? They did a study in China, of women in their 40s, and they were looking to see what were the common denominators of women who got because it's a small percentage in terms of all of breast cancer diagnoses are women under 50, and although that's growing, you know. And so they were curious about what is it what were the what was the factors? Was it socioeconomic class? Was it diet? Whatever.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:36:50]:
And that one the only thing that was the common denominator that kept coming up over and over and over again was being in an unhappy marriage. And this was this was these were women in their forties. So, you know, you can feel trapped because you have children, right, and you may have teenage children, you may have aging parents, all this responsibility. So it's important to look at these existential factors in this and asking your body, Am I in a situation that's not authentic for me? Is this is my body trying to tell me something? You know? And so that exploration can be gentle. It doesn't have to be, you know, it's important to be compassionate with yourself. So, so important to be compassionate with yourself throughout this entire journey. Mhmm. Because it's nobody's fault.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:37:41]:
I mean, it's nobody's fault. You know? But it can be an opportunity, as you said yourself. It can be a great opportunity. It was for me, and it continues to be.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:37:50]:
Yeah. Well and I think self compassion, especially this when we talk about this personality of people pleasing and overgiving and and maybe, you know, not great boundaries, we tend to be hard on ourselves. Right? So there's the we're so giving to everyone else, but then so hard on ourselves that that self compassion piece, especially with breast cancer, is so important. And that's even when I was practicing conventional medicine, I would always tell my patients, like, I want you to talk to yourself like you would your child or your pet or your best friend, because I bet you you would not say the things you've been saying to yourself to any of those people. And they're like, of course not.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:38:40]:
I wouldn't say any of

Dr. Katie Deming [00:38:41]:
those things to them. And I was just like, this is you have to change. Like, we have to shift the patterns, and part of that is not only, you know, giving so much to others, but but really almost taking away from yourself in the way that you depreciate, you know, or devalue what you're bringing to the world. Right? You're here giving so much and then beating yourself. And I

Dr Toni Galardi [00:39:05]:
think that having compassion through this process is is really important. There's something else that you're speaking to, which has to do with secondary gain. Like, okay, sometimes the only way that a person, especially women, can give themselves permission to stop is an illness. Okay? They and if you go the chemotherapy route, not I'm you know, I understand that there are people who need to do that, you know, if you have advanced stage cancer. However, there's a lot I mean, I was aware of this, because it was a lot of attention that people were giving me, and I thought to myself very, very vigilantly, do not get attached to the attention that this is bringing to you. Focus on your healing, focus on your deep dive work, so that you don't bring this back again. And that's what Carolyn Mace, who is a wonderful, medical intuitive, you know, she wrote she wrote books with Norman Shealy, and she talked about in one of her books was why don't people heal? Because there's secondary gain. It's the only way they know to stop, you know, is if I get sick, then I then I don't have to clean the house, and I don't have to go to this job I hate, you know, because I've got a bald head, and I have to be doing be hooked up to a chemo, you know, so they have permission.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:40:26]:
Giving yourself permission to start resting more, taking naps in the afternoon. I come from an Italian, you know, background. My father was an Italian immigrant, and we take naps in our house, you know, and we know that that really is medicinal, for example, you know? So if you make these habit changes, then you don't have to either get breast cancer necessarily or bring it back. Right? Because you're taking better care of yourself.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:40:55]:
Yeah. Well, I I can relate to that point of the only way that you can arrest is for something to happen. And I remember thinking this when I was a resident. I had 2 babies during residency.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:41:08]:
Oh my goodness.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:41:08]:
And I remember thinking, like, oh my god. Thank god I'm gonna deliver this baby because then I can just, like, get out of the clinic and out of the hospital and just rest for a little bit. I mean, obviously, that was having a baby is, like, the last thing. Wow. And I was, like, not restful at all, but I remember thinking that, like, oh my gosh. I'll be able to stop for just a little bit. You know? And and I think that as women, this is a real thing that people don't aren't able to give themselves permission to say, you know what? I don't have to get sick or have something major happen to give myself permission to rest. And, in fact, you need to rest.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:41:48]:
Otherwise, I saw I forget where this quote came from. I had seen it from, like, a transformational coach, but it said something like, you can make time for your wellness, or you'll be forced to make time for your illness. You know, and it's it's really true, I think, that that idea, but I hadn't really thought about that. And and I'm sure it's it's unconscious for these women. They're not thinking, like, I'm gonna have breast cancer, and then I can rest. It's like, no. This is happening on a subconscious level. And I I I just actually really appreciate you, bringing up that piece.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:42:23]:
You know, doing dream work with my clients helps a lot. And you can actually even prevent illnesses because we can see them in you know, actually, in the dream time, you can get warnings, you know, that something's a miss in the body. And so 90% of what's really going on with most of us is subconscious. But the dreams don't lie. So I would get information, you know, with my clients that would tell me what was really going on that they weren't even aware of. You know? So that shadow stuff, really important. You know? Really. Yeah.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:42:58]:
We wonderful. That's great.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:43:00]:
Yeah. I mean, that was the way I knew that my mom my mom died of ovarian cancer in 2023, and I knew she was dying from a dream. Actually Wow. I saw it in a dream. She had basically, like, the lower part of her face was turning black and and dying. And I knew that she was dying. And I asked my sister, like, what did the last and they said, no. She her scans weren't scheduled for, like, a month.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:43:28]:
But then, sure enough, at those next scans, it was clear that they were stopping all treatment and that it was done. But, absolutely, we receive information in our dreams. And when we go to sleep, just for the listeners, the conscious mind, what is active during the day, is offline when we're sleeping. And so then what you're accessing is pure subconscious, which is information. And so, you know, I think there are techniques to getting good information from dream time, you know, to make sure you're getting clear information, but it is very powerful. So I love that you use that. And, obviously, with Jungian, that makes sense that you're doing that kind of work, so that's beautiful. Well, I could talk to you literally all day because I'm fascinated by all of this, and it's just beautiful because you and I do similar work.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:44:20]:
You know? Like, a lot of the work that I do is around emotions and the subconscious and, you know, what is our body trying to tell us through this cancer diagnosis? But what I would love to have you tell my audience, and we'll include all of your links in the show notes, is where can people find you online and social media? And then your books, please tell us about your books.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:44:44]:
Sure. So doctortonigallardi.com, if there's if there's gonna be a chyron for that, is the website. Restquake is the most recent book I wrote, but there's also 2 other books I wrote that's about helping people find their their true soul purpose if they're in career burnout. And Lifequake Miracle is the last book on that. So we get into a lot of exercises to help people find what they're here to do next. So that's I guess, that does that cover it in terms of Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I guess, Instagram.

Dr Toni Galardi [00:45:19]:
You can find me on Instagram, doctor Tony Gallardi. Facebook, same thing. And I have a newsletter for people who sign up because I'm also a medical astrologer. And so one of the things that I can help people is with timing, when to make moves. And so I do a a free newsletter that I send out every month. So if you sign up for that, you know, you'll get some of that information too.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:45:42]:
I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much for being here and sharing all your wisdom with my audience. My pleasure. Truly. Thank you for joining me on Born to Heal. It's been a privilege to share this time with you, and I hope that today's episode has offered you valuable insights on your journey toward optimal health. Please consider subscribing, sharing this podcast with your friends, and leaving us a review.

Dr. Katie Deming [00:46:10]:
To learn more about how you can work with me, please visit katydemming.com. You can find additional resources in the episode show notes linked below, and remember to join us next week as we continue to explore more holistic approaches to healing. Until then, this is doctor Katie Deming reminding you that just like me, you were born to heal.