Episode 130 | How to Choose Your Cancer Treatment From a Place of Alignment, Not Fear

[00:00:00] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Hello and welcome back to The Born to Heal podcast. I'm Dr. Katie Deming, your host. I am kicking off a series about reclaiming your authority. And this episode was inspired by one of my listeners who sent a message on Instagram asking for an episode that talks about doctor shaming specifically.

[00:00:22] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So she was someone who had. Seeing a surgeon initially with her diagnosis and then had gone and sought [00:00:30] alternative care and came back to that doctor needing additional therapies and the doctor really let her have it. And when I was looking through my episodes to see which one would, which ones would be helpful for her, I realized I really haven't talked about this, and it's bigger than just doctor shaming.

[00:00:48] Dr. Katie Deming MD: This is really about. Reclaiming our authority. And anyone who's heard my story knows that the biggest thing that has impacted me from my [00:01:00] patients is hearing what they say at the end of their life, which is the top regret from someone who's facing the end of their life is, I wish I had the courage to live my truth.

[00:01:13] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And. In living your truth, oftentimes there's blowback from the systems and the authority figures who want things done in a certain way. And so for me, you know, not only have I lived this experience in my own career, not through a health challenge, but in questioning [00:01:30] Western medicine and choosing to leave the system and help people heal in another way, but it's something that I.

[00:01:38] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Work with in my fasters. So we're working with these issues that come up about what does it mean to live my path? What does it mean to choose my own path in my healing? And this conversation matters because today more than ever, we have so many people who are getting sick and are questioning. [00:02:00] The establishment and the standard of care and to say, is that really the way that I want to promote, pursue my healing?

[00:02:08] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so I want to do this series to give you the tools to make the best decisions for your own body and your own life. And today's episode is about something simple and incredibly difficult, choosing your own path.

[00:02:24] Dr. Katie Deming MD: As I said in the intro, the number one regret that I hear from patients at [00:02:30] the end of their life is, I wish I had the courage to live my truth. And most people are not living according to their values. They're living according to expectations and illness often forces the question, will you live someone else's life or will you live your own?

[00:02:51] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And today we're talking about what does it actually mean to choose your own path? I think that this episode comes [00:03:00] down to. Some things that have been conditioned into us that we may not even be aware of it. Number one, we are taught that there is one correct way to heal. Society also teaches compliance, right? We're taught in school. Do what you're told. You know, this is the way we do things, and we are trained at a very young age to comply to.

[00:03:27] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Observe a set of rules and [00:03:30] follow them in order to fit into society. And it starts very early. It starts in home, it starts in religions, it starts in the school system, and we are conditioned into compliance. I will say that in medicine, medicine is one of those areas where compliance is really anchored and conditioned into us because from the very beginning, we're taught the doctor knows best and you need to [00:04:00] follow what the doctor says.

[00:04:01] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And we have been trained to give away our power and our authority to doctors because number one, we're conditioned into compliance. And then compliance, the stakes. As the stakes go up, which obviously the stakes are high, when you're healing and you are needing to address a health condition, the stakes now have gone way up.

[00:04:28] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And you have [00:04:30] authority figures like doctors who really have been highly trained in this area, and it's hard to know what is. How would you know anything about a condition before you actually are dealing with it yourself and the doctors are, are trained in this area, and have the information that you think.

[00:04:51] Dr. Katie Deming MD: That you need, right? So you're taught that the doctor knows best, and so we are trained to comply and to follow. And in [00:05:00] medicine that compliance is considered even more important, right? Because now your life is on the line and you are really concerned about making the right choices and. The other thing that layers on top of this is that when the doctor says something, even if maybe you don't agree and you feel like you need to follow a different path, you may have family members or loved ones who love you, and they are [00:05:30] afraid.

[00:05:30] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So they are like, just do what the doctor says. And so you have not only. Been conditioned to comply. You're, you know, in a high stakes situation with well-trained authority figures that have a depth of knowledge that you don't have that makes you nervous, that you just want to defer to them. And then you have family members and loved ones who may be pressuring you as well.

[00:05:53] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And this is really a culmination of, Factors that lead [00:06:00] to potentially giving away your authority and just saying, okay, I'm just gonna do what I have been told to do. But choosing your own path means becoming the author of your life, and I'm going to argue in this series that even in. A situation where the stakes are high life and death.

[00:06:22] Dr. Katie Deming MD: You're dealing with your health. It becomes even more important to follow your truth, [00:06:30] to speak your truth, and to find a team that will help you live according to your values and do what feels right for your own body. So I think the first thing to acknowledge in all of this is that there is this illusion of one, right.

[00:06:48] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And it's just not true, right? There is not one treatment, there is not one outcome, one correct decision that you're gonna make, and. Healing is a [00:07:00] journey and healing. There are, you know, a thousand paths to get to the same place. And we in Western medicine have this concept of like, it's just this one way and it has to be this way.

[00:07:13] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And that is because the system is designed to. Look at specific therapies that are pharmaceutically based or, you know, radiation is example of that. But basically they're standardized within a system and it prioritizes those options and has [00:07:30] those as like, okay, this is considered the standard of care and the path that you should follow.

[00:07:37] Dr. Katie Deming MD: But if you go outside that system, you're gonna see that there are a bunch of other paths that you can choose and. Because our society values western medicine and values, you know, the education of doctors and the way that they have been trained, it basically prioritizes this one path. But if for you, that path doesn't [00:08:00] feel aligned, it's important to realize that like the first thing to come into your awareness is there isn't just one path and that that is an illusion.

[00:08:11] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And it is something that is really about control too. So we co control is an illusion, right? So, and I think when you think, okay, if I do this one path and I am controlling the outcome and it's gonna give me this best result for myself, but the [00:08:30] truth is you don't know that, right? Anything can happen. And that's why when you watch the, you know, television ads about pharmaceuticals, it's like at the end it's, you know, the list of things that can go wrong are.

[00:08:42] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Longer than the list of things that can go right with some of these medications. And I'm not saying with every medication, but it's, you know, there are a lot of things that can go wrong. And so this idea, if like I just do what I'm told, then I'm gonna control the outcome is just an illusion to be honest.

[00:08:59] Dr. Katie Deming MD: [00:09:00] And so, you know, recognizing there is no simple single correct path. There are many paths. Many destinations in a healing journey, and the destination depends on your values. Different values are gonna lead to different outcomes. So your decisions should really be based on what are your values and what is it that you want for [00:09:30] your life based on your values.

[00:09:32] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Then you choose what is the right path for you, and the destination that you are heading to is different depending on your values. And this is something that is just not talked about at all in Western medicine and the standard of care of looking at, okay, well if someone doesn't value. The same things as someone else.

[00:09:52] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Maybe this. Protocol or this algorithm is not right for that person. And this is something that we don't [00:10:00] discuss unless someone is, you know, being treated in a palliative nature, which means the disease is considered incurable according to Western medicine. Then at that point we're like, okay, well quality of life matters.

[00:10:13] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so we'll, you know, allow you to make decisions based on your values. But the truth is actually in oncology, I see this all the time, that even when someone has stage four disease and treatment is considered palliative, meaning from the Western medical perspective, they don't believe that it's [00:10:30] curable and that the treatments are just designed to prolong life or reduce suffering, that kind of thing.

[00:10:38] Dr. Katie Deming MD: That. Even in that setting, you can really see this pushing of specific agendas and protocols that are not aligned with your values, even in the setting of stage four disease. So I say that they do that when you were talking about palliative treatment, but the truth is, I see this happening even with stage four disease, where people are like, I just wanna take a [00:11:00] break.

[00:11:00] Dr. Katie Deming MD: I wanna go off these medications. I wanna try something natural for a bit. And they'll get this pushback from the doctors of, oh, well if you wanna see your. Children grow up, then I wouldn't do that. You know, this is your best chance to give you more time and that kind of thing. So I think that, this is really important to anchor in the idea that your destination, where you are going, your goal is dependent on your values.

[00:11:29] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And [00:11:30] so. You need to know what your values are. You need to know what's important to you in order to make the best decisions to determine what is that path for me and where am I trying to go? Right, because maybe the goal for you is not avoiding death, which is basically the whole premise of Western medicine is to.

[00:11:49] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Avoid death at any cost. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, of course. Like if you have something that is, can be healed, of course we wanna heal that. Of [00:12:00] course, we don't want people to die of the disease, but it becomes at odds when we're really looking at. Treating disease and symptoms in order to prolong life, but at the expense of really living a life that is aligned with yourself and also going against your values.

[00:12:21] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So let's talk about what does medicine value medicine values. Duration of life. Right. So [00:12:30] the goal in Western medicine is to avoid death, is to, basically have people, especially I'm speaking specifically within the cancer space, just because that is the world that I have lived in for so long and that are, those are the people that I see the most in my programs, but basically western medicine that prioritizes.

[00:12:52] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Longevity of life, not necessarily the quality of your life, but what you value is likely [00:13:00] not living absolutely the longest possible, regardless of what that quality of life is. Right? So your values may differ with what medicine values, and this is where the conflict arises, is that. Medicine is prioritizing duration of life.

[00:13:19] Dr. Katie Deming MD: But then the other thing is there are incent, there are other values within the Western medical system that I can guarantee are opposed to what the individual may [00:13:30] want or need, and those are profit. Efficiency, survival instead of meaning, right? So really looking at survival rather than the quality and the meaning of your life.

[00:13:43] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And then also alignment and truth. Those are not things that the Western medical system values. And so. If your goals are to live a vibrant, healthy, meaningful life that is aligned with your truth, and then you're dealing with a [00:14:00] system that values profit, efficiency, and survival, you can see how there is this rub that's gonna happen, that's naturally gonna happen, and I think a lot of people.

[00:14:11] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Think that there's something wrong with them when they come into odds with the system. But every system has values and the destination that you are gonna reach depends on what you value. And so if we recognize that that. [00:14:30] We're in a system that values something different than we value. It is okay to have this friction.

[00:14:36] Dr. Katie Deming MD: It is okay to disagree with a doctor that you see or your family member because what is important for you? May not be important to them. And so the, that's like really important just to know that this is not like you've done something wrong, there's something wrong with you that you need to question who you are or what you value.

[00:14:58] Dr. Katie Deming MD: It's really [00:15:00] about recognizing there's a difference in values between the system that you are working with and your own values in your life. I've talked about this story a lot, but I want to revisit the river story and the parable of the river. And you know, for me, I had a misalignment with the values of the system.

[00:15:22] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And this started back in 2018 when I heard the parable of the river and the parable goes something like this, that once [00:15:30] upon a time there was a village perched alongside a river. And one day the villagers noticed, someone drowning in the river. And so they rushed out to save this person and bring them onto dry land, and the next day they saw two people drowning in the river.

[00:15:44] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So they sent two villagers out to rescue the people and and get them to safety. And then the next day there were four and then eight, and then 16. And every day the number of village or the number of people drowning in the river was doubling. And so the villagers organized themselves [00:16:00] and became. Really systematically good at rescuing people off the river.

[00:16:05] Dr. Katie Deming MD: They had all of these elaborate systems and, boats and pulleys and teams to rescue the people who were drowning in the river. And the village elders praised the villagers for their amazing work on the river. And when I first heard this parable in 2018, I was at a yoga retreat with one of my colleagues.

[00:16:25] Dr. Katie Deming MD: I turned to her and I said, this is us. Like we are glorified rescue [00:16:30] workers on the river. And what is going on upstream? Why are so many younger people entering our office? Why are people getting sicker? Why is it that we are not making an indent? If we are doing such a good job in healing cancer, why are more and more people falling in the river and.

[00:16:48] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Ultimately, you know, so making a long story short, this led to my decision to leave Western Medicine. And, you know, it took me time because this was gonna mean a divorce [00:17:00] and giving up my, you know, income, a career that had trained my whole life for, and so it took me, That first I heard the Parable River in 20 18, 20 20.

[00:17:10] Dr. Katie Deming MD: I had my shared death experience that really made me realize, okay, I do have to leave the system. And then it took me two more years to really make that choice and unravel my life to leave Western medicine. And so I know that following your truth is expensive, And I [00:17:30] didn't leave because it was easy.

[00:17:33] Dr. Katie Deming MD: I left because I knew staying would cost me myself and choosing your path always has a cost, but not choosing your path has a greater one. And that's really why I left, because I knew from being with so many people who had faced the end of their life caring for thousands of cancer patients, and many of those who were facing, you know, their own mortality, they would tell [00:18:00] me at the end of their life, their biggest regret was not living their truth.

[00:18:04] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so choosing your path, even though it has a cost and you may disappoint some people, and you may piss off a doctor, you may upset your family. That cost is lower than not choosing your own path and following your truth, because at the end of your life what is going to matter is whether you lived in alignment with what your truth is and whether you lived your a [00:18:30] life that was true to you.

[00:18:31] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So let's talk a little bit about like, how does this happen actually? How does our authority get surrendered to, you know, a system like medicine? And if we think about it, it makes a lot of sense why this happens specifically in. Medicine and the healing space. And that is because, like I said earlier, doctors are highly trained and they also are given a ton of [00:19:00] authority.

[00:19:00] Dr. Katie Deming MD: In our society, we put doctors on a pedestal, the white coat, right? This is intended to create authority within the system. This is by design. I'm not saying that doctors are doing this themselves, like trying to take authority. It's this system that we have created within, Western culture that puts the doctor on the pedestal.

[00:19:24] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so the doctor has this power in society where we look up to [00:19:30] the doctors and we trust them. I mean, I think that's changing, you know, with the things that are happening in the world today. But, this is something that's been conditioned into us from a young age. And then on top of that. Doctors are often trained or always trained at institutions, but a lot of these institutions hold a lot of power as well because we look to them and say, wow, they're doing these amazing things and looking, looking at the cutting edge of research and what's happening.

[00:19:57] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And they know best because they're doing the [00:20:00] research and they're exploring the frontiers. And so this. You know, putting the institutions and the doctors on a pedestal already has a starting to defer our authority. But then, like I said before, the fear of the consequences of not listening to these system, not listening to these doctors is.

[00:20:24] Dr. Katie Deming MD: The stakes are high, right? So you're afraid you don't want to make a mistake. And [00:20:30] so then going against an authority figure when the stakes are high, and the consequences of, you know, making a quote unquote wrong choice, or having things go sideways is a big deal because this is your life that's on the line.

[00:20:44] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And then the last thing in this. Is really about approval seeking. So, and this is interesting because I think this is where actually specifically within cancer, I think there is a dangerous overlap that occurs and or, or convergence I guess that [00:21:00] occurs. And that is that. Many people who are diagnosed with cancer are people pleasers and seeking approval.

[00:21:08] Dr. Katie Deming MD: This is just like, this is not necessarily related to the diagnosis. This is something that I see in my practice and also has been described is that. People who have cancer also tend to be more people pleasing and approval seeking. And I think this is especially true for breast cancer. [00:21:30] and also gynecologic cancer.

[00:21:31] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So these are two cancers that I was specializing in in my practice, and I would see this as something that was. A trait that, um, that was quite consistent, that you would have people who really want to make everyone happy. They're do doing everything to make sure that everyone is, peaceful and that they're not gonna ruffle any feathers and they kind of are the ones who keep everything going, to, you know, keep the peace.

[00:21:59] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And [00:22:00] if you think about that, that you've got this setup of this system that values authority, that has, you know, a setup for our conditioning to really defer our power to within medicine doctors, you know, academic centers. And then you have someone who is a people pleaser. This is a setup for a disaster because basically you've been conditioned to defer your power to [00:22:30] keep the peace.

[00:22:31] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so this comes to a head when you are seeking care and you, your values are different and you want to, you don't wanna upset the doctor. You don't want the doctor to not treat you well. You don't want the doctor to be like, well, that person is, you know. Labeled whatever, non-compliant or you know, crazy, whatever.

[00:22:52] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Whatever it is that you're worried about, them thinking. If you're a people pleaser and you've got this dynamic, this is going to really [00:23:00] set you up to not speak your truth and just be like, okay, I'm just gonna do what's said, what's being told. And because that's the safest thing to do and I don't wanna ruffle any feathers.

[00:23:09] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So you can see how this is really a setup, right. And authority over your life is not granted. It's practiced. And reclaiming your authority isn't about rejecting guidance. It's about refusing to outsource your power. So I wanna be clear that that is what we're talking about here. This isn't [00:23:30] that you have to reject what the doctors say.

[00:23:32] Dr. Katie Deming MD: No, go and listen and hear what they have to offer and then look at what are your values, how do what they are offering. How does that fit into your value system and recognize. That reclaiming your authority is going to be a daily practice. That this is not a one and done thing. This is something that you have to practice in order to call back, and it's going to give you opportunities [00:24:00] every day to practice this.

[00:24:02] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And if you can see it as a practice, I think that takes some of the. Pressure off of like this one decision, this one thing. It's like, no, I'm gonna practice today honoring my truth, listening, taking in information from different sources, and then making decisions that are aligned with me in my highest interest based on my values.

[00:24:25] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And you know, the next thing that I wanna talk about is that like [00:24:30] there's this idea that. Healing is a single destination and linear, and that if you make the wrong decision, like everything is just ruined. And the truth is, is that, like I said, there's so many different paths and oftentimes even when you follow the path, like say that you did standard of care following a specific protocol that has been recommended by your doctor, I can guarantee you that.

[00:24:57] Dr. Katie Deming MD: Many, many times you have to change [00:25:00] course, even when you're doing what they say because something comes up or your body responds in a way that isn't aligned with that treatment, and you're gonna have to change course. So that happens in Western medicine. So it's absolutely gonna happen regardless of the path that you choose.

[00:25:15] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And this is also another practice. You are going to have to change course and course correct as you go along on your journey because you are going to be learning things about yourself. This is all new for many [00:25:30] of you not used to dealing with. You know, healing and different doctors and that kind of thing, and you are going to be learning things and you are going to be constantly correcting your course and honestly, this challenge that you're facing, you know, I'm talking about health challenges, but this could be really anything, any challenge that you're facing is being brought into your life to help you grow.

[00:25:56] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so your diagnosis is a lesson [00:26:00] thi this is, and I've said this so many ways on so many episodes, but cancer is not the problem. Cancer is a symptom of something underlying that needs to shift within your life, within your being, and that means that this whole experience of healing is a growth opportunity.

[00:26:18] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And if you can see that rather than that, this is some destination that you're trying to arrive at, that's like everything is perfect. That is not what this is. This life is actually about learning and [00:26:30] growing, and life is going to unfold, and your journey of healing is going to unfold in ways that you probably cannot predict and allowing yourself to be in that growth, be in that learning.

[00:26:45] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And really come to the understanding that your path is not a single decision. It's a series of choices made again and again. So as you're listening to this episode and reflecting on the [00:27:00] things that I said, I want you to think about. Okay. Where am I deferring my authority? How have I been conditioned to defer my authority?

[00:27:10] Dr. Katie Deming MD: What are my values and how can we think about authority as a practice? Rather than a destination of where you're going is like, okay, I am reclaiming my authority and I make this one decision and then it's over. It's like, no, this is a practice that you are going to [00:27:30] practice every day and choose again and again with every choice that you make.

[00:27:36] Dr. Katie Deming MD: So the question is not what should you do. The question is, who are you choosing to be? Authority is not something you claim once. It's something you practice. So this series is totally new for me. I'm excited about this because actually there's so many episodes that I'm like, so many things tie into this idea of reclaiming your authority.

[00:27:58] Dr. Katie Deming MD: And so in the next [00:28:00] episode, we're gonna talk about what happens when you choose your own path and how systems respond when you stop complying. See you on the next episode.